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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 28, 2022 20:37:03 GMT
If Shepard refused to "play the game" then what's the point of the capsules? If doing anything the Starbrat says is wrong then why would anything ever get done in regard to the Reapers? Wouldn't the "right" decision always be Refuse? This is why that ending is 100% stupid. You'd just have to assume Shepard was actually brain dead to make that choice. At minimum, the next cycle still has to deal with organic/synthetic war and the Reapers still roll in and cause immeasurable death before the Crucible is put online. The Protheans left a lot behind but even they sat on the info they had for thousands of years. Why assume the next cycle would be any different? No, that choice makes absolutely no sense. At least with the other ones Shepard could take a chance that it might work out. Even Synthesis would be a 1000% better than fucking the current cycle and who knows how many to come. No rational person could ever thing Refuse is a good option, at least not of logic enters the equation on any level. And then there's what you said. The "Shepard" of the next cycle finds out all of the death and destruction they're experiencing could have been prevented if only some asshole hadn't screwed over everyone out of spite. Starbrat: You have it in your power to destroy us Shepard: *shoots the tube* *Resulting fireball incinerates Shepard* Starbrat: I can't believe that actually worked! Well it's Shepard's fault for walking into the explosion like a dumba🤬🤬 instead of shooting it at range.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 29, 2022 4:16:45 GMT
Uhh, could I have the short version please? BLUF: Brat has an agenda. Brat wants you to pick one of his desired outcomes. Don't do what Brat wants. Short version. Ignore dumb, dumb. The one's who built the crucible say it will destroy the reapers. Believe them, not dumb, dumb. Shoot the tube.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 29, 2022 4:32:36 GMT
Starbrat: You have it in your power to destroy us Shepard: *shoots the tube* *Resulting fireball incinerates Shepard* Starbrat: I can't believe that actually worked! Well it's Shepard's fault for walking into the explosion like a dumba🤬🤬 instead of shooting it at range. It is. Shepard has been in the military for over 10 years. He/she would know the effective range of the weapon. If I ask a Bioware employee to fire at a barrel full of explosives while walking towards it, would he/she do it? No. He/she would look at me like I'm crazy. There was no reason for walking towards the tube while firing at it. Then again it shows a vision of Anderson walking towards it while firing at it. Monkey see, monkey do.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 29, 2022 13:17:42 GMT
Well it's Shepard's fault for walking into the explosion like a dumba🤬🤬 instead of shooting it at range. It is. Shepard has been in the military for over 10 years. He/she would know the effective range of the weapon. If I ask a Bioware employee to fire at a barrel full of explosives while walking towards it, would he/she do it? No. He/she would look at me like I'm crazy. There was no reason for walking towards the tube while firing at it. Then again it shows a vision of Anderson walking towards it while firing at it. Monkey see, monkey do. It's because they wanted Shepard dead. No other reason. Plot hammer.
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Post by winterking on Aug 29, 2022 13:54:52 GMT
Indoctrination theory leaves the trilogy without a proper ending. Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending? Say what you will about the ending but the story is concluded. The Reaper threat is no more. Indoctrination theory doesn't conclude the story.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 29, 2022 15:23:15 GMT
Starbrat: You have it in your power to destroy us Shepard: *shoots the tube* *Resulting fireball incinerates Shepard* Starbrat: I can't believe that actually worked! It was still a chance. Even if it was a trick it's not like the galaxy would be any worse off. But turning down the possibility, no matter how slim, to end it us just fucking stupid.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 29, 2022 15:28:08 GMT
Brat has an agenda. Brat wants you to pick one of his desired outcomes. Don't do what Brat wants. Brat is okay with continuing the cycles if not of its choices are made. Brat can spend another billion years harvesting because Shepard is too stupid to pick the possibility of a different outcome. If brat is lying then nothing changes. If brat isn't lying, everything changes.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 29, 2022 15:30:08 GMT
Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending? Say what you will about the ending but the story is concluded. The Reaper threat is no more. Indoctrination theory doesn't conclude the story. IT has a surface level "maybe" but it doesn't hold up. I don't remember the details anymore but a close examination shows that it doesn't work. It's a nice theory, though not as nice as Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 29, 2022 15:46:42 GMT
It is. Shepard has been in the military for over 10 years. He/she would know the effective range of the weapon. If I ask a Bioware employee to fire at a barrel full of explosives while walking towards it, would he/she do it? No. He/she would look at me like I'm crazy. There was no reason for walking towards the tube while firing at it. Then again it shows a vision of Anderson walking towards it while firing at it. Monkey see, monkey do. It's because they wanted Shepard dead. No other reason. Plot hammer. That wouldn't have been hard to do. I would have accepted Shepard's death when shot by Harbinger. I would accept his/her death from the massive explosion seen after the red is fired. I would also accept Shepard's death if some sharpnel from the tube killed him/her even from firing at it from a distance.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2022 2:35:30 GMT
It's because they wanted Shepard dead. No other reason. Plot hammer. That wouldn't have been hard to do. I would have accepted Shepard's death when shot by Harbinger. I would accept his/her death from the massive explosion seen after the red is fired. I would also accept Shepard's death if some sharpnel from the tube killed him/her even from firing at it from a distance. The whole setup was straight out of Sovereign's boast: "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it" Shepard living or dying was all because the Reapers permitted it. or demanded it. Shepard never should have gotten off Earth alive. And Shep was led around by the nose by the plot until The Reapers can explain WTF the giant space magic wand was supposed to do.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 30, 2022 2:44:36 GMT
That wouldn't have been hard to do. I would have accepted Shepard's death when shot by Harbinger. I would accept his/her death from the massive explosion seen after the red is fired. I would also accept Shepard's death if some sharpnel from the tube killed him/her even from firing at it from a distance. The whole setup was straight out of Sovereign's boast: "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it" Shepard living or dying was all because the Reapers permitted it. or demanded it. Shepard never should have gotten off Earth alive. And Shep was led around by the nose by the plot until The Reapers can explain WTF the giant space magic wand was supposed to do. Shepard should still be dead after what happened at the beginning of ME2.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2022 2:50:35 GMT
The whole setup was straight out of Sovereign's boast: "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it" Shepard living or dying was all because the Reapers permitted it. or demanded it. Shepard never should have gotten off Earth alive. And Shep was led around by the nose by the plot until The Reapers can explain WTF the giant space magic wand was supposed to do. Shepard should still be dead after what happened at the beginning of ME2. Fair enough/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 8:02:28 GMT
Where do I take the story?
Flavortown. Guy Fierri has some diners drive-ins and dives for us this week on "What's cooking Citadel?"
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 30, 2022 16:42:30 GMT
Uhh, could I have the short version please? BLUF: Brat has an agenda. Brat wants you to pick one of his desired outcomes. Don't do what Brat wants. Short version. Ignore dumb, dumb. The one's who built the crucible say it will destroy the reapers. Believe them, not dumb, dumb. Shoot the tube. Emotionally bought in to what you think is "right"? Else why call others choices "dumb", and even worse, doubling down and calling the person that makes that choice "dumb" as well? Or, just cast aspersions on what you don't agree with........ Nice.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 30, 2022 17:16:11 GMT
Short version. Ignore dumb, dumb. The one's who built the crucible say it will destroy the reapers. Believe them, not dumb, dumb. Shoot the tube. Emotionally bought in to what you think is "right"? Else why call others choices "dumb", and even worse, doubling down and calling the person that makes that choice "dumb" as well? Or, just cast aspersions on what you don't agree with........ Nice. Have I called a player's choice dumb? Or called a person dumb? If you believe that, you should be able to link post(s) of me saying that. When I say dumb, dumb, I'm calling the catalyst dumb, dumb.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 30, 2022 20:21:16 GMT
The whole setup was straight out of Sovereign's boast: "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it" Shepard living or dying was all because the Reapers permitted it. or demanded it. Shepard never should have gotten off Earth alive. And Shep was led around by the nose by the plot until The Reapers can explain WTF the giant space magic wand was supposed to do. Shepard should still be dead after what happened at the beginning of ME2. Shepard should've been paste after the beginning of ME2.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2022 21:37:28 GMT
Short version. Ignore dumb, dumb. The one's who built the crucible say it will destroy the reapers. Believe them, not dumb, dumb. Shoot the tube. Emotionally bought in to what you think is "right"? Else why call others choices "dumb", and even worse, doubling down and calling the person that makes that choice "dumb" as well? Or, just cast aspersions on what you don't agree with........ Nice. What's dumb is making shooting the pipe containing highly explosive substances the "on" switch.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 30, 2022 22:07:52 GMT
Emotionally bought in to what you think is "right"? Else why call others choices "dumb", and even worse, doubling down and calling the person that makes that choice "dumb" as well? Or, just cast aspersions on what you don't agree with........ Nice. What's dumb is making shooting the pipe containing highly explosive substances the "on" switch. What's even dumber is not building in a remote switch into the space magic battery.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 31, 2022 0:18:57 GMT
Emotionally bought in to what you think is "right"? Else why call others choices "dumb", and even worse, doubling down and calling the person that makes that choice "dumb" as well? Or, just cast aspersions on what you don't agree with........ Nice. What's dumb is making shooting the pipe containing highly explosive substances the "on" switch. What's even dumber is showing a vision of Anderson, some who refer to him as a mentor to Shepard, walking towards the tube while shooting it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 5:14:13 GMT
This is all proof that what we see is not what is really going on. Even though we are actually playing the god-damned character, there is the Great and Powerful HuddyMax and probably remnants of the original ending left in the cutscenes telling us the real story in glimpses.
We have to admit that the entire "conversation" with StarBert, really everything after leaving Anderson, is a fever dream and a desperate mind working out a way to make this body perform the final act before it expires. Time is running out, but I don't know what to do, I don't know where I am, I just want to kill these brutes and their cold cruel cycles. It has to stop....
"How do I do it... ugh I'm bleeding, bad. What am I even doing here?"
<Anderson shooting a tube>
"Ok I'm hallucinating, but that's my subconscious reminding me of my goal. My goal is to set off some chain reaction, be the catalyst that activates the Crucible. He shot a tube... that looks an awful lot like this one. It's gonna blow, and then for better or worse my part in this is over. I'm tired. I'm sorry Liara."
The discussion with StarBrat is the battle of his conscience and the affect of indoctrination, along with severe blood loss and failing cybernetics. The Commander was dying, and did their best to see it through.
This was too hard for them to write. It is the truth of what we see, in my opinion, and even Refuse is explained by my very simple magic wand. Probably unoriginal, but it is my feeling on a tired subject. Rather than make an actual Deus Ex Machina, and have Shepard speak to their soul in the final moments, they embodied an other that pretty much offended everyone. Oopsers.
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Aug 31, 2022 9:51:50 GMT
I say give Shepard Andersons roll let Shepard be the new protagonists mentor that sort of thing I don’t need to play as Them again but damn I would love to See Them back in the next game. Shepard could be a mentor while still being the main character in ME4. A new squadmate joins the roster. During the game, Shepard takes time to talk with the new guy/gal about stuff in between missions. This new character could be setup to be the main character for ME5. The only issue is Mike if they bring Shepard back as the PC I can’t see people jumping for joy at having Shep taken away again to have another Ryder situation.See I liked Ryder but unfortunately Ryder was a massive disappointment compared to Shepard all around.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 31, 2022 12:14:55 GMT
Shepard could be a mentor while still being the main character in ME4. A new squadmate joins the roster. During the game, Shepard takes time to talk with the new guy/gal about stuff in between missions. This new character could be setup to be the main character for ME5. The only issue is Mike if they bring Shepard back as the PC I can’t see people jumping for joy at having Shep taken away again to have another Ryder situation.See I liked Ryder but unfortunately Ryder was a massive disappointment compared to Shepard all around. Well, I would say that depends on whether the new "guy" is lame like Ryder or bad ass like Shep.
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Post by Guardian on Aug 31, 2022 12:58:56 GMT
The only issue is Mike if they bring Shepard back as the PC I can’t see people jumping for joy at having Shep taken away again to have another Ryder situation.See I liked Ryder but unfortunately Ryder was a massive disappointment compared to Shepard all around. Well, I would say that depends on whether the new "guy" is lame like Ryder or bad ass like Shep. Also if they gave Shep a proper sendoff, as opposed to what we were given. But yes, I don't think there's a proper way to resolve the transfer from Shep to a new protagonist anymore, given how ME 3 ended so clumsily. Exactly! Give the middle finger to Hudson and (not-so-super)Mac. At least Mr Artistic Integrity Hudson is gone, but that cockroach Mac is still around. Leads to an interesting comparative question; which team whiffed the endings to a beloved franchise more, Beniott\Weiss with Game of Thrones, or Hudson\Walters with ME3? Hudson/Walters by far; it's not even a contest. I remember watching the scene in GoT where Dany has the dream of the Iron Throne becoming ash, and I said right then to my friends who were so engrossed in it that she wasn't getting the Throne; that something was going to happen. I didn't expect the rest of the season or the endgame to happen how it did...but Dany not getting the Throne? Yeah, that I saw coming, thanks to her dream. I didn't think Hudson/Walters would have botched the MET ending so poorly.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 1, 2022 0:16:15 GMT
Say what you will about the ending but the story is concluded. The Reaper threat is no more. Indoctrination theory doesn't conclude the story. IT has a surface level "maybe" but it doesn't hold up. I don't remember the details anymore but a close examination shows that it doesn't work. It's a nice theory, though not as nice as Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord.
If Shepard wakes up before the beam run in the ruins of London, and then what? That is the problem with the IT it does answer how the question how does the story end.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 1, 2022 2:04:50 GMT
IT has a surface level "maybe" but it doesn't hold up. I don't remember the details anymore but a close examination shows that it doesn't work. It's a nice theory, though not as nice as Jar Jar Binks being a secret Sith Lord.
If Shepard wakes up before the beam run in the ruins of London, and then what? That is the problem with the IT it does answer how the question how does the story end.
Yeah. Originally they talked about how this meant there would be an expansion that would have the true ending. Yet a decade and a new game and a remaster later and still no expansion.
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