Arcian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Aug 21, 2022 7:49:43 GMT
Where Andromeda failed for me is that it asked us not to take on the role of explorers, but settlers. Yeah I felt like the AI was more hippi commune than a group of highly trained settlers/explorers...even if we were able of seeing in real time 2.5M light years with enough resolution to determine biomes of each planet, a dumb idea that far breaks suspension of disbelief, and which for me broke the story before I even began. Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. BioWare's solution? The Arks use an electromagnetic ramjet scoop to collect intergalactic gas in front of the Ark while in flight to synthesize into fuel, and recycles the static charge from FTL drives as power for the Ark's systems. Sounds sensible, right? Well, no. Intergalactic space is extraordinarily empty in terms of gas, just one atom per cubic meter. The Arks are the biggest ships ever built by the modern cycle, so they would have to consume an ungodly amount of fuel to accelerate all their mass. The Codex entry for the ODSY Drive in Andromeda states the Arks use hydrogen to synthesize fuel. One gram of hydrogen contains one mol of hydrogen atoms, which is 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. There are 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters in one light year. 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 divided by 9,460,730,472,580,800 is 63,658,086. 63,658,086 is the number of light years the Ark would have to travel to collect one gram of hydrogen from intergalactic space. That's over 25 times the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Even if you posit that the electromagnetic ramjet can collect 1 million hydrogen atoms a second (meaning the area of the ramjet covers 1 million cubic meters in front of the ship), that's still 63.6 light years for one gram of hydrogen, for a total of 39.3 kilograms of hydrogen over the course of the entire journey to Andromeda. As for the discharge problem, while not quite as egregious as the example above, it still leaves out the fact that the conversion from static electricity to usable power isn't 100% efficient and created waste heat that has nowhere to go besides back into the hull due to the intergalactic vaccum. Ergo, the heat will feed back into the Ark's hull and ultimately cook the crew alive (just like not discharging the drive would do). So by solving the discharge problem, they have created the exact same problem the solution was meant to solve, except with an additional step. Just as added insult to the injury, the Arks extraordinary mass means they reach discharge saturation much, much quicker than a vessel like the Normandy, which makes the above problem even worse. If you're thinking right now, "Damn, it sounds like BioWare just threw this stuff in so they could make the deadline." you'd be correct. There was no real reflection on the concept of the Ark and how it's supposed to work, they had already made up their minds about going to Andromeda despite it being impossible according to their own lore, and had to make something up to make the technology sound plausible even though it isn't, once again, according to their own lore.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2022 11:56:39 GMT
Yeah I felt like the AI was more hippi commune than a group of highly trained settlers/explorers...even if we were able of seeing in real time 2.5M light years with enough resolution to determine biomes of each planet, a dumb idea that far breaks suspension of disbelief, and which for me broke the story before I even began. Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. You're wrong about a couple things. 1. The trilogy does not establish that. In fact it establishes the opposite since Reaper drives do not fall under that limitation. No doubt the Reapers just made it seem as such to limit a cycle’s engines making them easier to trap. 2. About half the stars in the universe are believed to exist in the Dark Space between galaxies. |
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 21, 2022 17:08:55 GMT
Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. You're wrong about a couple things. 1. The trilogy does not establish that. In fact it establishes the opposite since Reaper drives do not fall under that limitation. No doubt the Reapers just made it seem as such to limit a cycle’s engines making them easier to trap. 2. About half the stars in the universe are believed to exist in the Dark Space between galaxies. 1) Reapers are literally millions of years more advanced than the Milk Way races. And given the AI predates the trilogy, they didn't even have a Reaper to try and reverse-engineer. (not that they would have had anywhere near the time to duplicate such a feat on the Nexus, let alone shrink it down enough to fit on the Tempest. 2 Space is BIG. Like, really really BIG. Dark Space even more so. And totally unmapped.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 21, 2022 18:43:46 GMT
You're wrong about a couple things. 1. The trilogy does not establish that. In fact it establishes the opposite since Reaper drives do not fall under that limitation. No doubt the Reapers just made it seem as such to limit a cycle’s engines making them easier to trap. 2. About half the stars in the universe are believed to exist in the Dark Space between galaxies. 1) Reapers are literally millions of years more advanced than the Milk Way races. And given the AI predates the trilogy, they didn't even have a Reaper to try and reverse-engineer. (not that they would have had anywhere near the time to duplicate such a feat on the Nexus, let alone shrink it down enough to fit on the Tempest. 2 Space is BIG. Like, really really BIG. Dark Space even more so. And totally unmapped. 1. Unless there is more to the origin of the ODSY Drive than we know of. 2. I know. Just correcting the idea that there are no stars or planets out there. |
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 21, 2022 18:59:17 GMT
1) Reapers are literally millions of years more advanced than the Milk Way races. And given the AI predates the trilogy, they didn't even have a Reaper to try and reverse-engineer. (not that they would have had anywhere near the time to duplicate such a feat on the Nexus, let alone shrink it down enough to fit on the Tempest. 2 Space is BIG. Like, really really BIG. Dark Space even more so. And totally unmapped. 1. Unless there is more to the origin of the ODSY Drive than we know of. 2. I know. Just correcting the idea that there are no stars or planets out there. 1 A story that NO ONE in universe seems interested in exploring. Like the Lazarus Project. 2 And they'd be spread so thin out there is almost might as well be empty, is my point.
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Post by 10k on Aug 22, 2022 0:57:56 GMT
My rating goes something like this.
Story: ME1>ME2>ME3>Andromeda
Gameplay: ME2>ME3>ME1>Andromeda
Overall: ME2>ME1>ME3>Andromeda
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on Aug 22, 2022 6:09:16 GMT
You're wrong about a couple things. 1. The trilogy does not establish that. In fact it establishes the opposite since Reaper drives do not fall under that limitation. No doubt the Reapers just made it seem as such to limit a cycle’s engines making them easier to trap. 2. About half the stars in the universe are believed to exist in the Dark Space between galaxies. 1) Reapers are literally millions of years more advanced than the Milk Way races. And given the AI predates the trilogy, they didn't even have a Reaper to try and reverse-engineer. (not that they would have had anywhere near the time to duplicate such a feat on the Nexus, let alone shrink it down enough to fit on the Tempest. 2 Space is BIG. Like, really really BIG. Dark Space even more so. And totally unmapped. Yeah, charting a path to take advantage of stars between the MW and Andromeda would be impractical regardless...cannot even begin to guess at how many additional thousands of LY's it would add to the trip.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 15:39:20 GMT
Having beaten ME3 a couple of days ago, I was thinking afterward that since The Catalyst can potentially withhold Synthesis from Shepard, Bioware could use the fact that it was seemingly duplicitous to undo some of the ramifications of the endings, by saying it lied to Shepard about the specifics. The thing is, I doubt this could be really executed well. The only thing I can think of is that it might have lied to Shepard about the consequences of Destroy (not the mass relays, obviously, but all synthetics dying out) because it had a fondness for the Reapers and didn't want to see them go.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 23, 2022 6:48:57 GMT
Having beaten ME3 a couple of days ago, I was thinking afterward that since The Catalyst can potentially withhold Synthesis from Shepard, Bioware could use the fact that it was seemingly duplicitous to undo some of the ramifications of the endings, by saying it lied to Shepard about the specifics. The thing is, I doubt this could be really executed well. The only thing I can think of is that it might have lied to Shepard about the consequences of Destroy (not the mass relays, obviously, but all synthetics dying out) because it had a fondness for the Reapers and didn't want to see them go. I've always argued to the Synthesis crowd that it was merely trying to manipulate us. Why wouldn't a super AI - albeit one with circular logic - lie, use every nasty tactic there is to turn a million civilizations into Reaper paste? Setting aside any potential pros and cons to arguments for other choices, destroy was simply the safe way to go to preserve the current civilizations.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 23, 2022 10:39:39 GMT
Having beaten ME3 a couple of days ago, I was thinking afterward that since The Catalyst can potentially withhold Synthesis from Shepard, Bioware could use the fact that it was seemingly duplicitous to undo some of the ramifications of the endings, by saying it lied to Shepard about the specifics. The thing is, I doubt this could be really executed well. The only thing I can think of is that it might have lied to Shepard about the consequences of Destroy (not the mass relays, obviously, but all synthetics dying out) because it had a fondness for the Reapers and didn't want to see them go. I've always argued to the Synthesis crowd that it was merely trying to manipulate us. Why wouldn't a super AI - albeit one with circular logic - lie, use every nasty tactic there is to turn a million civilizations into Reaper paste? Setting aside any potential pros and cons to arguments for other choices, destroy was simply the safe way to go to preserve the current civilizations. And how do you know that Destroy isn’t the deception? After all if it would lie about what it wanted, it would absolutely lie about how to kill it. |
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Post by themikefest on Aug 23, 2022 11:17:37 GMT
I've always argued to the Synthesis crowd that it was merely trying to manipulate us. Why wouldn't a super AI - albeit one with circular logic - lie, use every nasty tactic there is to turn a million civilizations into Reaper paste? Setting aside any potential pros and cons to arguments for other choices, destroy was simply the safe way to go to preserve the current civilizations. And how do you know that Destroy isn’t the deception? After all if it would lie about what it wanted, it would absolutely lie about how to kill it. That's why Hackett's ending is best. Not only does it avoid dumb, dumb and the neopolitan endings, but it avoids any possible deception.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 23, 2022 16:29:33 GMT
At this point just do a hard reboot/remake of the MET and be done with it. The only things that I would keep is: Shepard, The Reapers, and the Normandy and the basic plot that a human special agent discovers that the Reapers are going to wipe out all organic life in the Milky Way Galaxy and must unite the galaxy to stop it. Everything else is on the table for a redo/re-invention/remake including all characters and choices made in the series.
Honestly I think the clone idea is a slightly better idea than a hard reboot/remake and I still think MEA2 is the still best idea for the franchise to go forward because it will just becoming another sci-fi nostalgia series that go in new and different directions and will be stuck replaying the same story over and over and over again. But that is all ultra hardcore so-called gamers and sci-fi nerds want anymore. Is the same shit over and over and over again.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 23, 2022 16:58:06 GMT
Yeah I felt like the AI was more hippi commune than a group of highly trained settlers/explorers...even if we were able of seeing in real time 2.5M light years with enough resolution to determine biomes of each planet, a dumb idea that far breaks suspension of disbelief, and which for me broke the story before I even began. Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. BioWare's solution? The Arks use an electromagnetic ramjet scoop to collect intergalactic gas in front of the Ark while in flight to synthesize into fuel, and recycles the static charge from FTL drives as power for the Ark's systems. Sounds sensible, right? Well, no. Intergalactic space is extraordinarily empty in terms of gas, just one atom per cubic meter. The Arks are the biggest ships ever built by the modern cycle, so they would have to consume an ungodly amount of fuel to accelerate all their mass. The Codex entry for the ODSY Drive in Andromeda states the Arks use hydrogen to synthesize fuel. One gram of hydrogen contains one mol of hydrogen atoms, which is 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. There are 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters in one light year. 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 divided by 9,460,730,472,580,800 is 63,658,086. 63,658,086 is the number of light years the Ark would have to travel to collect one gram of hydrogen from intergalactic space. That's over 25 times the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Even if you posit that the electromagnetic ramjet can collect 1 million hydrogen atoms a second (meaning the area of the ramjet covers 1 million cubic meters in front of the ship), that's still 63.6 light years for one gram of hydrogen, for a total of 39.3 kilograms of hydrogen over the course of the entire journey to Andromeda. As for the discharge problem, while not quite as egregious as the example above, it still leaves out the fact that the conversion from static electricity to usable power isn't 100% efficient and created waste heat that has nowhere to go besides back into the hull due to the intergalactic vaccum. Ergo, the heat will feed back into the Ark's hull and ultimately cook the crew alive (just like not discharging the drive would do). So by solving the discharge problem, they have created the exact same problem the solution was meant to solve, except with an additional step. Just as added insult to the injury, the Arks extraordinary mass means they reach discharge saturation much, much quicker than a vessel like the Normandy, which makes the above problem even worse. If you're thinking right now, "Damn, it sounds like BioWare just threw this stuff in so they could make the deadline." you'd be correct. There was no real reflection on the concept of the Ark and how it's supposed to work, they had already made up their minds about going to Andromeda despite it being impossible according to their own lore, and had to make something up to make the technology sound plausible even though it isn't, once again, according to their own lore. This is a pretty good summary of all the technical issues with going to Andromeda.
I would add (and have said this quite a few times before) that apart from all the technology lore breaking, one of the most egregious offenses of the Andromeda backstory against established ME lore is that it makes the ME3 endings even worse than they already were. If intergalactic travel is achievable with - let's say moderate to severe - effort by organic races, the reapers should easily be capable of it or at least be aware of its feasibility.
Now, the reapers' premise is that eventually, AIs will surpass and wipe out organic life. Therefore, in order to preserve organic life, sufficiently developed life has to be wiped out before they can develop the AI that will annihilate all organic life. And thus, the cycles were created by the reapers in the Milky Way. And granted, IF the MW were an isolated system, that "solution" would make a modicum of sense (even if it's convoluted and cruel and whatnot but let's assume the reapers don't care about that).
However, if there is such a thing as intergalactic travel and given that organic life in the ME universe seems to develop on garden worlds fairly frequently, it is to be expected that organic life also develops in other galaxies (as it does, as we see in Andromeda and even the puny organics managed to confirm the existence of garden worlds over intergalactic distances, so you'd think the reapers can, too).
So if this is the case, by the reaper's own premise, that organic life would eventually develop sentient AIs, which would eventually wipe them out there should be AIs in other galaxies, which could potentially invade the Milky Way at any time. And since those AIs wouldn't have spent the last couple of billion years or whatever in hibernation and kept all development stagnating, they'd probably wipe the floor with the reapers, not to mention all other life in the Milky Way.
So whatever the reapers hoped to achieve with their cycles makes even less sense if you throw the possibility of intergalactic visitors in the mix. Long story short -> Andromeda's writing was an unmitigated disaster on so many levels. 
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 23, 2022 17:24:45 GMT
What ever happened it happened 600 years ago. I guess we always knew there was no going back.
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Post by hoku on Aug 23, 2022 17:36:15 GMT
Q: Commander Shepard returns for ME4 - how do you create a compelling story?A: I see multiple ways Shep can be back for Mass Effect will continue... but ways that are compelling not so much.IMO compelling probably rules out a flashback or cameo of sorts (they had a nice Shepard to MEA sendoff video/speech, that wasn't in game though) For me the main hindrances to a compelling story with Shepard are the same as for the "normal" will continue option the many ME3/Arc variables (ME3 endings, genophage, geth/quarians choices to name just some) just with/without the Shepard add-on so to speak. I still think the best solution is to go around all those variables  with (pick your choice): - time travel*
- alternate universe*
- multiverse*
- Buzz Aldrin Space Grandpa (one more different story)
- (another) clone or the actual real Shepard in will continue
- other options
*as far as I can remember none of those haven't even been hinted at in any shape way or form so far in Mass Effect My personal favorite is still an in-universe explanation: MET didn't happen as we played it - at least not completely - but non of it is invalidated either (if you just look at MET as standalone and not as "will continue". The questions basically would be when and where the infliction point in the MET story is - depends on how much MET story you want to reset/re-tell:
- ME1 the prothean beacon vision/blackout on Eden Prime
- ME2 Lazarus Project rebuild or Geth Consensus mission
- ME3's bad dreams or beam run knockout
or "Buzz Aldrin Space Grandpa "I promised you another story, it goes..." which basically would give them a blank slate too
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 23, 2022 20:57:07 GMT
Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. BioWare's solution? The Arks use an electromagnetic ramjet scoop to collect intergalactic gas in front of the Ark while in flight to synthesize into fuel, and recycles the static charge from FTL drives as power for the Ark's systems. Sounds sensible, right? Well, no. Intergalactic space is extraordinarily empty in terms of gas, just one atom per cubic meter. The Arks are the biggest ships ever built by the modern cycle, so they would have to consume an ungodly amount of fuel to accelerate all their mass. The Codex entry for the ODSY Drive in Andromeda states the Arks use hydrogen to synthesize fuel. One gram of hydrogen contains one mol of hydrogen atoms, which is 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. There are 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters in one light year. 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 divided by 9,460,730,472,580,800 is 63,658,086. 63,658,086 is the number of light years the Ark would have to travel to collect one gram of hydrogen from intergalactic space. That's over 25 times the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Even if you posit that the electromagnetic ramjet can collect 1 million hydrogen atoms a second (meaning the area of the ramjet covers 1 million cubic meters in front of the ship), that's still 63.6 light years for one gram of hydrogen, for a total of 39.3 kilograms of hydrogen over the course of the entire journey to Andromeda. As for the discharge problem, while not quite as egregious as the example above, it still leaves out the fact that the conversion from static electricity to usable power isn't 100% efficient and created waste heat that has nowhere to go besides back into the hull due to the intergalactic vaccum. Ergo, the heat will feed back into the Ark's hull and ultimately cook the crew alive (just like not discharging the drive would do). So by solving the discharge problem, they have created the exact same problem the solution was meant to solve, except with an additional step. Just as added insult to the injury, the Arks extraordinary mass means they reach discharge saturation much, much quicker than a vessel like the Normandy, which makes the above problem even worse. If you're thinking right now, "Damn, it sounds like BioWare just threw this stuff in so they could make the deadline." you'd be correct. There was no real reflection on the concept of the Ark and how it's supposed to work, they had already made up their minds about going to Andromeda despite it being impossible according to their own lore, and had to make something up to make the technology sound plausible even though it isn't, once again, according to their own lore. This is a pretty good summary of all the technical issues with going to Andromeda.
I would add (and have said this quite a few times before) that apart from all the technology lore breaking, one of the most egregious offenses of the Andromeda backstory against established ME lore is that it makes the ME3 endings even worse than they already were. If intergalactic travel is achievable with - let's say moderate to severe - effort by organic races, the reapers should easily be capable of it or at least be aware of its feasibility.
Now, the reapers' premise is that eventually, AIs will surpass and wipe out organic life. Therefore, in order to preserve organic life, sufficiently developed life has to be wiped out before they can develop the AI that will annihilate all organic life. And thus, the cycles were created by the reapers in the Milky Way. And granted, IF the MW were an isolated system, that "solution" would make a modicum of sense (even if it's convoluted and cruel and whatnot but let's assume the reapers don't care about that).
However, if there is such a thing as intergalactic travel and given that organic life in the ME universe seems to develop on garden worlds fairly frequently, it is to be expected that organic life also develops in other galaxies (as it does, as we see in Andromeda and even the puny organics managed to confirm the existence of garden worlds over intergalactic distances, so you'd think the reapers can, too).
So if this is the case, by the reaper's own premise, that organic life would eventually develop sentient AIs, which would eventually wipe them out and which could potentially invade the Milky Way at any time. And since those AIs wouldn't have spent the last couple of billion years or whatever in hibernation and kept all development stagnating, they'd probably wie the floor with the reapers, not to mention all other life in the Milky Way.
So whatever the reapers hoped to achieve with their cycles makes even less sense if you throw the possibility of intergalactic visitors in the mix. Long story short -> Andromeda's writing was an unmitigated disaster on so many levels.  
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Post by Iakus on Aug 23, 2022 20:58:45 GMT
*as far as I can remember none of those haven't even been hinted at in any shape way or form so far in Mass Effect To be fair, that has never stopped them from inserting lore-breaking space magic into the games thus far... 
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Post by helios969 on Aug 24, 2022 6:05:29 GMT
I've always argued to the Synthesis crowd that it was merely trying to manipulate us. Why wouldn't a super AI - albeit one with circular logic - lie, use every nasty tactic there is to turn a million civilizations into Reaper paste? Setting aside any potential pros and cons to arguments for other choices, destroy was simply the safe way to go to preserve the current civilizations. And how do you know that Destroy isn’t the deception? After all if it would lie about what it wanted, it would absolutely lie about how to kill it. Merely because it clearly wants you to chose Synthesis. It rambles on about the cost and consequences of Destroy and Control then sells you on a grand utopian resolution...it's the pretty flower of a lethal plant.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 24, 2022 11:31:26 GMT
And how do you know that Destroy isn’t the deception? After all if it would lie about what it wanted, it would absolutely lie about how to kill it. Merely because it clearly wants you to chose Synthesis. It rambles on about the cost and consequences of Destroy and Control then sells you on a grand utopian resolution...it's the pretty flower of a lethal plant. Yep. Thing says the chaos will return. Soon your children will make robots. For blue, it hesitates for a brief moment when saying it will be forced to accept Shepard, soon to be thing part 2, as it's replacement. Why would a thing hesitate? Green is where thing shines. If you went to every grocery store to look for butter, you wouldn't find any. That's because thing has it all to use to butter up Shepard telling him/her green is the way to go. It is not. But the things thing says is garbage. You are ready. Shepard is not. It's something that can't be forced. But it is dumb, dumb. It's being forced by Shepard. It's the ideal solution. Because that is what thing wants. You have the one in charge of the reapers explaining what the crucible does then says green is the ideal solution. It is not. And probably the funniest part of it's rambling is green is the final evolution of all life. That must mean the current state of organic life will remain as it is. I guess red and blue will surpass green. Green only works in dumb, dumb's favor. It remains along with it's toys.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2022 13:24:15 GMT
And how do you know that Destroy isn’t the deception? After all if it would lie about what it wanted, it would absolutely lie about how to kill it. Merely because it clearly wants you to chose Synthesis. It rambles on about the cost and consequences of Destroy and Control then sells you on a grand utopian resolution...it's the pretty flower of a lethal plant. And yet sometimes it only presents Destroy. Again, why would it tell you how to kill it and ruin the cycle it has been running for at least a billion years? Which coincidentally has you damaging the thing made to do that. Overall, If it’s lying about one option it’s lying about all of them. |
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Post by winterking on Aug 24, 2022 13:58:52 GMT
Merely because it clearly wants you to chose Synthesis. It rambles on about the cost and consequences of Destroy and Control then sells you on a grand utopian resolution...it's the pretty flower of a lethal plant. And yet sometimes it only presents Destroy. Again, why would it tell you how to kill it and ruin the cycle it has been running for at least a billion years? Which coincidentally has you damaging the thing made to do that. Overall, If it’s lying about one option it’s lying about all of them. I never finished ME3 with the just Destroy option but it's my understanding that when this happens, the Catalyst is not happy that you're there saying "What are you doing here?" instead of "Wake up". Also if you kept the collector base you only have Control available, right? That being said, unless they retcon the whole thing, I think the writers intended for all three options to end the cycle so the Catalyst wasn't lying about any of the options, although he clearly favors Synthesis over the other two.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 24, 2022 14:15:02 GMT
I never finished ME3 with the just Destroy option but it's my understanding that when this happens, the Catalyst is not happy that you're there saying "What are you doing here?" instead of "Wake up". Yep. It has an attitude. It's mad. It turns into a crybaby because it's not getting what it wanted. I don't care. Shoot the tube Right. For blue or red to be the only choice, below 1750 for the trilogy and for the remaster, the number is below 3500. For green to be available 6200 is needed or higher for the remaster and for the trilogy, 2700 is needed. If someone chooses to complete a default ME3 playthrough, the game will assume the base has been destroyed. Red would be the only choice with ems being very low.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2022 14:26:16 GMT
And yet sometimes it only presents Destroy. Again, why would it tell you how to kill it and ruin the cycle it has been running for at least a billion years? Which coincidentally has you damaging the thing made to do that. Overall, If it’s lying about one option it’s lying about all of them. I never finished ME3 with the just Destroy option but it's my understanding that when this happens, the Catalyst is not happy that you're there saying "What are you doing here?" instead of "Wake up". Also if you kept the collector base you only have Control available, right? That being said, unless they retcon the whole thing, I think the writers intended for all three options to end the cycle so the Catalyst wasn't lying about any of the options, although he clearly favors Synthesis over the other two. I agree that the Catalyst isn’t lying about any of the endings. After all we see what happens afterwards. I just get frustrated when this argument from Pro-Destroyers comes up “oh they were lying about Control/Synthesis but telling the truth about Destroy making my ending right.” |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 15:15:14 GMT
I never finished ME3 with the just Destroy option but it's my understanding that when this happens, the Catalyst is not happy that you're there saying "What are you doing here?" instead of "Wake up". Also if you kept the collector base you only have Control available, right? That being said, unless they retcon the whole thing, I think the writers intended for all three options to end the cycle so the Catalyst wasn't lying about any of the options, although he clearly favors Synthesis over the other two. I agree that the Catalyst isn’t lying about any of the endings. After all we see what happens afterwards. I just get frustrated when this argument from Pro-Destroyers comes up “oh they were lying about Control/Synthesis but telling the truth about Destroy making my ending right.” I would only really think that some aspects of Destroy could potentially be untrue. Like you said, we see Synthesis and Control unfold (unless they try to pull something along the lines of Synthesis having gone wrong, and it actually corrupting/harming everyone in some way). I just recently chose Destroy, and there were no cutscenes where the Geth, EDI, or any synthetics other than the Reapers are shown dying. Maybe this varies by EMS? Assuming Bioware is likely going with high EMS Destroy as canon, they'll have to base it off whatever is -- or isn't-- shown there.
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Post by winterking on Aug 24, 2022 16:22:36 GMT
I agree that the Catalyst isn’t lying about any of the endings. After all we see what happens afterwards. I just get frustrated when this argument from Pro-Destroyers comes up “oh they were lying about Control/Synthesis but telling the truth about Destroy making my ending right.” I would only really think that some aspects of Destroy could potentially be untrue. Like you said, we see Synthesis and Control unfold (unless they try to pull something along the lines of Synthesis having gone wrong, and it actually corrupting/harming everyone in some way). I just recently chose Destroy, and there were no cutscenes where the Geth, EDI, or any synthetics other than the Reapers are shown dying. Maybe this varies by EMS? Assuming Bioware is likely going with high EMS Destroy as canon, they'll have to base it off whatever is -- or isn't-- shown there. But assuming you made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, we see the Quarians alive and alone.. In Synthesis and Control, we see the Quarians with the Geth. In the destroy ending we also see that EDI is name is on the wall, implying that she's dead. We see flashbacks of characters that have died along ME3 and EDI always shows up in the Destroy Ending.
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