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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 23, 2016 22:51:39 GMT
From gameinformer article: So, he basically confirms the characters are never plot-integral and are just with you to be companions. Remember when Wrex opposes you for Saren's Krogan breeding facility in ME1? Remember when Ashley and Kaidan are in peril and you can only save one? Yeah, those kind of moments will not be in Andromeda.
This goes against everything companion characters should be in my book. I'm really disappointed in what we're learning about this game :/
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Post by pdusen on Nov 23, 2016 22:55:59 GMT
Uh... it sounds more like he's talking about Wrex's quest for his family armor than about anything like the showdown on Virmire.
Nothing to see here.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 22:57:14 GMT
It's a bit disappointing, but I liked plenty of characters that weren't plot integral. In my 5 top companions list in ME only Wrex had that moment. Garrus, Miranda, Mordin and Legion weren't, if not for their loyalty quests. That can still have moments where they shine in the story, just not alone, based on what they said.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 23, 2016 22:58:35 GMT
loyalty missions to get to know the people that Ryder will be around. So, would that include crewmembers having loyalty missions?
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Post by bshep on Nov 23, 2016 23:03:47 GMT
Look more salt...
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 23:07:40 GMT
I wouldn't worry. Sure that is one interpretation of the quote but another is that any events like Wrex onVirmire BioWare woulfn't consider shining the spotlight on individusl characters to be that.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 23, 2016 23:08:35 GMT
Uh the same can be said for almost all the characters from ME1 and ME2. In ME2 we recruited them but besides that and a loyalty mission alot of them didn't matter. In ME1 Ashely and kaiden got that one scene special on virmire and you could ignore garrus completly same with tali. So sorry this doesn't mean anything.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 23, 2016 23:09:13 GMT
Uh the same can be said for almost all the characters from ME1 and ME2. In ME2 we recruited them but besides that and a loyalty mission alot of them didn't matter. In ME1 Ashely and kaiden got that one scene special on virmire and you could ignore garrus completly same with tali. So sorry this doesn't mean anything. Love your pic. LONG LIVE THE KING OF THE NORTH!!!
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 23:15:57 GMT
loyalty missions to get to know the people that Ryder will be around. So, would that include crewmembers having loyalty missions? Possibly. I had an idea on that based on the trailer and the Tempest article, but it might be a spoiler (about the Tempest's article I mean).
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Post by LFS on Nov 23, 2016 23:18:02 GMT
You really are the king of hyperbolic misunderstanding.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 23, 2016 23:18:19 GMT
loyalty missions to get to know the people that Ryder will be around. So, would that include crewmembers having loyalty missions? Possibly. I had an idea on that based on the trailer and the Tempest article, but it might be a spoiler (about the Tempest's article I mean). I have posted before, however long ago, how crewmembers can have loyalty missions.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 23:19:20 GMT
Possibly. I had an idea on that based on the trailer and the Tempest article, but it might be a spoiler (about the Tempest's article I mean). I have posted before, however long ago, how crewmembers can have loyalty missions. I meant for a specific character mentioned in the Tempest article, which might be related to a scene in the trailer.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 23, 2016 23:20:46 GMT
Uh... it sounds more like he's talking about Wrex's quest for his family armor than about anything like the showdown on Virmire. Nothing to see here. But emphasis is on the fact that he says it's the only time companions will be in the spotlight, which wasn't true for neither ME1, 2 nor 3. In 1, there's the Wrex Virmire moment and such. ME2 has the main theme revolving around it but they've already confirmed for ME:A that "no companion deaths" and the loyalty missions won't tie into the finale, and in ME3 they were mostly there in honor of ME2 but guys like Mordin or Miranda got main plot relevance with moments to be in the spotlight, so there IS something to see here. Companions don't matter beyond being part of your team and a brief ME1-style side-quest but nothign else. They just confirmed that. Oh yeah, and you can fuck with them. Hooraayy....
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 23:26:10 GMT
Uh... it sounds more like he's talking about Wrex's quest for his family armor than about anything like the showdown on Virmire. Nothing to see here. But emphasis is on the fact that he says it's the only time companions will be in the spotlight, which wasn't true for neither ME1, 2 nor 3. In 1, there's the Wrex Virmire moment and such. ME2 has the main theme revolving around it but they've already confirmed for ME:A that "no companion deaths" and the loyalty missions won't tie into the finale, and in ME3 they were mostly there in honor of ME2 but guys like Mordin or Miranda got main plot relevance with moments to be in the spotlight, so there IS something to see here. Companions don't matter beyond being part of your team and a brief ME1-style side-quest but nothign else. They just confirmed that. Oh yeah, and you can fuck with them. Hooraayy.... He did say it's the only moment the squadmates will be alone in the spotlight, not that there won't be other moments they can shine. I disagree on ME2. The spotlight was only in the recruitment and especially the loyalty quest. We'll still recruit most of the party and have a loyalty quest. As long as the have other moments on the spotlight, even if they won't be alone in it, I'll be satisfied. Basically, I'm going to wait and see how they realized their vision in the game.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 23, 2016 23:33:35 GMT
For sure. I think we can assume, as usual that companions at least reflect different factions or themes of the story, like how DA:I used the characters to show you the various conflicts from different sides. My rule of thumb for plot is that if there's no solid plot in terms of causality or character development, there can still be a great character study. I really am looking forward to Ryder him/herself and I hope the main arc with their family story is good while still not detracting from the grandness of being post-space pioneers in a completely unknown galaxy.
A problem is that Mac said they tried to avoid putting pressure on the player in the plot to create the sense that you have to hurry with the critical path, and that was also a deliberate design in DA:I which I heard David Gaider say in an interview, but they need to figure out how to do that but still create a sense of tension or danger looming that you're always looking forward to leading up to the ending and not just some random bad guy who smirks and has "EVIL" written all over them. There needs to be a sense of importance and high stakes for Ryder and his adventure regardless of how many 100s of hours it'll take the player to explore stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 23:33:37 GMT
TC, I noticed your examples come exclusively from ME1. No mention of ME 2 or 3. One could argue ME:A is probably going to be more influenced by those more recent games than the first one. What did you think of the way ME 2 and 3 handled the squadmates? Doesn't Mac's quote sound like nothing too different from 2 and 3? By the way, wasn't it possible in ME1 to encounter Wrex's standoff even though you rejected him the whole game and focused on other squadmates, instead? Technically, he was "plot integral," but it's possible you didn't even really get to know him because you never brought him anywhere.
So I wouldn't read too much into what Mac said. In fact, you can virtually count on moments of high stakes that focus on your squadmates during the main plot. ME2 had the suicide mission. What to do about Grunt. What to do about Legion. ME3 had the Geth vs. Quarians moment. Mordin's big moment. Who to bring on the suicide run. Those are just a couple of quick examples. And there's no way Mac's going to spoil those moments for us in ME:A.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 23, 2016 23:37:27 GMT
Wrex doesn't have to be recruited in ME1.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 23, 2016 23:39:21 GMT
TC, I noticed your examples come exclusively from ME1. No mention of ME 2 or 3. One could argue ME:A is probably going to be more influenced by those more recent games than the first one. What did you think of the way ME 2 and 3 handled the squadmates? Doesn't Mac's quote sound like nothing too different from 2 and 3? By the way, wasn't it possible in ME1 to encounter Wrex's standoff even though you rejected him the whole game and focused on other squadmates, instead? Technically, he was "plot integral," but it's possible you didn't even really get to know him because you never brought him anywhere. So I wouldn't read too much into what Mac said. In fact, you can virtually count on moments of high stakes that focus on your squadmates during the main plot. ME2 had the suicide mission. What to do about Grunt. What to do about Legion. ME3 had the Geth vs. Quarians moment. Mordin's big moment. Who to bring on the suicide run. Those are just a couple of quick examples. And there's no way Mac's going to spoil those moments for us in ME:A. You didn't read this thread through. I just accounted for how companions were emphasised in all three games, where ME1 had standout moments with Wrex and Ash/Kaidan and Liara was vital (it's just Tali and Garrus that are sort of there after their recruitment), but ME2 was completely emphasising them as a main theme with both recruitment and loyalty missions counting as part of the critical path and full of expensive level design and action-heavy cutscenes and the entire endgame exclamates how much the story is about the companions uniting with Shepard. ME3 had great use of companions for the ME2 and ME1 default squaddies like Mordin and Ash/Kaidan as both get very heavy main plot agency. Wrex doesn't have to be recruited in ME1. And that's completely fine! I like that it's a choice, just as how I didn't get to see that amazing Mordin finale everyone were talking about until my second ME3 playthrough. What I'm disappointed with is the notion that after recruitment they've already confirmed that A) Their standout moment is their ME1-length (ish) "loyalty mission" as they call it for fan-favoritism and they can't die in the plot of ME:A. The last one isn't all doom and gloom for me. I would've personally liked it considering both Wrex and Ash or Kaidan were added to raise the stakes of ME1. I thought all being killable in ME2 was insane but it worked because they felt somewhat disposable the whole time and it was more quantity. The tradeoff would've hopefully been how ME:A's squaddies are really good characters that stand out in the plot and there's only 6 of them, but they just made it sound like their biggest story-moment happens in their companion quests... and that's lame.
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Post by daniel on Nov 23, 2016 23:43:08 GMT
Its really a matter of how you interped things. You could also look at it as; you get a linear story and the option to choose whether you want to explore the not neccesarily parts of the game. At this point you can't really know yet if the story will include pivotal moments for the side characters, but looking at the history im sure they have that covered.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 23, 2016 23:44:40 GMT
Its really a matter of how you interped things. You could also look at it as; you get a linear story and the option to choose whether you want to explore the not neccesarily parts of the game. At this point you can't really know yet if the story will include pivotal moments for the side characters, but looking at the history im sure they have that covered. I can get behind this. I think bottomline is that I'm just very apathetic towards what they're trying to hype up about the game (scanning, exploring planets, look at all these activities! But no story, lol!)
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Nov 23, 2016 23:47:52 GMT
The greatest tool: misdirection. Say something untrue let everyone tear it apart while you sit on the truth unknown to the masses.
Also take note that though he says none will die that does not mean that they will not desert you.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 23:50:47 GMT
Its really a matter of how you interped things. You could also look at it as; you get a linear story and the option to choose whether you want to explore the not neccesarily parts of the game. At this point you can't really know yet if the story will include pivotal moments for the side characters, but looking at the history im sure they have that covered. I can get behind this. I think bottomline is that I'm just very apathetic towards what they're trying to hype up about the game (scanning, exploring planets, look at all these activities! But no story, lol!) Honestly if they are going for a low key marketing approach what do you expect? If they market things like story they risk spoiling the story ala Cory= Elder One. Point two BioWare is known for good stories, great characters, marketing such things may be considered redundant. AND the marketing campain began two weeks ago.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 23:51:40 GMT
The greatest tool: misdirection. Say something untrue let everyone tear it apart while you sit on the truth unknown to the masses. Also take note that though he says none will die that does not mean that they will not desert you. Or get hurt or mauled in some fashion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 23:51:45 GMT
Link"Guess"ski Actually, I was still in the middle of typing my response when you posted that. You were just too fast. Oh, well.
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Post by hammerstorm on Nov 23, 2016 23:52:05 GMT
Sometimes I wonder if this is a forum where people who like and enjoy games can join together and have positive conversations about the games and different ideas, OR if people that come here are cynicals and have as goal to bring as much negativity as possible*. *disclaimer: this is not relevant for 80/90% of the BSNers.
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