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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 21, 2017 18:43:38 GMT
At this point i really dont give much of a frack. It doesnt change the fact that C.H did his own thing, without regards for the entire team, and it shows in the ending. Besides, where's the proof that his account was hacked? Please link it for me...Ill even go search and see if anything is there. Besides, most of old bioware has jumped ship, rather telling isnt it??? I typed in the question, "Was patrick weekes account hacked?" and the first thing to pop up.... gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/Give me proof. At this point, I hope ME:A does well but it has a noose hanging overhead and if the story doesn't deliver...I don't know if we will see any more ME games.
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 18:46:49 GMT
It doesnt change the fact that C.H did his own thing You say "fact" but you have absolutely no proof to back it up. You want to know why Retakers started claiming Casey Hudson was the only one who wrote the endings? Because they wanted people who'd swallow it up to threaten his life to scare BioWare into changing their game just for the Retakers. Which, naturally, didn't work at all.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 18:48:56 GMT
And as I've said many MANY times before: that's because of the lack of variety of endings made them all so bleak. There was no OPTION for anything better. Not like, say, DAO. Shepard's death was, quite simply, the most obvious example of what was wrong with the endings. Not the only problem Thanks. This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I posted. A lack of variety isn't your actual problem. You need the upper bound of the endings to be happier. Anyone who's seen your posts knows this by the way you reacted to Refuse. Really, do you expect anyone to believe that adding a larger spectrum of endings would have satisfied you, i f none of the were any happier than the existing endings? That doesn't pass the laugh test. Bolded is exactly the problem. Adding more of the same is not variety. It is not adding more options (except in the Henry Ford sense of "any color you want, as long as it's black"). Yes, the upper boundary of the endings needed to be happier because happier was simply not an option. But you should know that Shepard's survival would not have been enough for me, as the problems with the endings go far deeper than that.
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 21, 2017 18:51:51 GMT
It doesnt change the fact that C.H did his own thing You say "fact" but you have absolutely no proof to back it up. You want to know why Retakers started claiming Casey Hudson was the only one who wrote the endings? Because they wanted people who'd swallow it up to threaten his life so they'd get around to changing their game to suit the Retakers and the Retakers alone. Which, naturally, didn't work at all. I see someone has a theory about everything. Soo...where is Your proof on that? Cause fiannawolf has articles linked but you got "your own facts".
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 21, 2017 18:55:13 GMT
Well, lets see: CH did so much harm to his career that he's not at BW anymore. The buck stopped with him as CDirector, lets see how Mac does with ME:A then.
At this point, its no use trying to convince those of us who thought ME3 was shit in the way it closed off. Just as there is no point in convincing you either. The best we can all hope for is that BW wont shoot itself in the head with ME:A.
Oh no, death threats on the internet. Conservatives get those all the time on Twitter. Or facebook or tumblr...esp tumblr.
The fact is, even though shit rolls downhill, the overall responsibility is the head director and you can't make it smell any better at the bottom then it is at the top.
Also, it is fact for many that C.H was at direct fault. How much fault will be up for interpretation, mainly because this thread and many like it exist.
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Post by Arcian on Feb 21, 2017 19:00:39 GMT
I see a lot of bellyaching here and on reddit, and on a couple of facebook groups I'm in, and on twitter, and a lot of it is super-hostile. Funnily enough, in these same spaces I always see a lot of complaints about the original trilogy. But when it comes to Andromeda, the original trilogy is some perfect ideal held up with reverence, and where Andromeda strays from its formula is nothing but folly. (nevermind that in the case of both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age trilogies, Bioware's comparable big game series of the last decade, all three games are different beasts from one another, and the very same people who say they changed for the worse as the series went on also seem to agree that the first entries are clunky messes) Andromeda isn't ME4. Andromeda is like a soft reboot. It's a new game, potentially a new series, that leverages lore and design decisions made and learned from in the last one in order to revamp things for the future. Think of it not as a sequel that must build off the back of its predecessors but more as a newly designed IP, which has been built from the ground up to be better and more fun. It is inspired by Mass Effect in much the same way as it can also take gameplay or even lore inspiration from other successful franchises -- Destiny, Warframe, Witcher, etc. You think tech armor should be an identical power in this game, like they owe it to you somehow? The tactical pause wheel is vital to this game? Every biotic power, pull, lift, throw, should return, exactly the same? The running and jumping (or lack thereof) and cover should be the same? Incorrect. This is a new game, and they're not constrained by the same design decisions. They can redesign old ideas to be better. They have decided that a faster-paced game with only three active powers at a time is objectively more enjoyable and fits better with the kind of game they want this to be -- and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why powers are being revamped and certain things are being folded into one another. That's why Warp is now being remade into something better. Why barrier is now a passive boost. Why there are no strict classes. They're taking another crack at old ideas, free from old shackles that they were stuck with through the whole trilogy -- and that's incredibly exciting. If you're upset that it's not the same, well, yeah. It's not supposed to be the same. They owe us nothing, certainly not adherence to old, dated design decisions that are arguably poorer than the new alternatives we're seeing here. I think we should all keep that in mind. You want everyone to see it for a new game and not have any expectations for prior mass effect games? Then maybe they shouldn't have Mass Effect in the game title. i.giphy.com/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU.gif
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 21, 2017 19:03:06 GMT
Well, lets see: CH did so much harm to his career that he's not at BW anymore. Casey Hudson remained with BioWare to see the beginning of ME:A's development through, then left to join Microsoft's HoloLens team. The Retaker campaign of harassment and death threats had nothing to do with his departure from BioWare, as much as those people desperately want their sociopathic delusions to be vindicated. And even now, the former Retakers who've realized their campaign failed miserably now devote their lives to trying to make life hell for people who want to enjoy the games. Hence the people who lie in the faces of fans whom they know can see through their crap.
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Post by Legenlorn on Feb 21, 2017 19:11:00 GMT
Well, lets see: CH did so much harm to his career that he's not at BW anymore. Casey Hudson remained with BioWare to see the beginning of ME:A's development through, then left to join Microsoft's HoloLens team. The Retaker campaign of harassment and death threats had nothing to do with his departure from BioWare, as much as those people desperately want their sociopathic delusions to be vindicated. And even now, the former Retakers who've realized their campaign failed miserably now devote their lives to trying to make life hell for people who want to enjoy the games. Hence the people who lie in the faces of fans whom they know can see through their crap. Now see this shows you are trolling. So gl hf. Don't forget your tin foil hat.
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 21, 2017 19:21:47 GMT
Lets see what his new job entails then.... Which was more important, CD of Mass Effect or the new stuff.... Long-time BioWare veteran Casey Hudson, best known as the project director on the Mass Effect trilogy, has become creative director at Microsoft Studios. His primary focus at Microsoft will be on the HoloLens, an augmented reality headset announced earlier this year that will work with a special platform included in Windows 10, called Windows Holographic. www.pcgamer.com/casey-hudson-joins-microsoft-studios-as-creative-director/Seems like a step sideways...on interesting new tech but not so much in game side of the house.
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Post by mjalpha on Feb 21, 2017 19:22:31 GMT
Well thought out post, but saying the developers owe us nothing is absurd. Am I saying that they literally owe us? No. But without the fans, especially us crazed lot, there is no BioWare. And its only because of the old titles that any of us are here in the first place. Sure, they can adopt elements from other games/franchises, but this is still ME we're talking about so expecting people to take every new decision the developers make in stride is futile. As a few others have stated already, if they wanted to make a new game not "constrained" by the elements/decisions of the old titles they should have just created a new game completely unconnected to ME. The majority of us aren't asking that every power/ability remain unchanged or that the developers shouldn't try to make strides creatively, but to possibly remove the pause option of the game altogether would be nothing short of moronic, and would do nothing but guarantee less sales while alienating a load of players that either loved or depended (impaired) on this mechanic. ME wouldn't be ME without the pause mechanic regardless of if you used it personally or not.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 19:25:06 GMT
Well, lets see: CH did so much harm to his career that he's not at BW anymore. Casey Hudson remained with BioWare to see the beginning of ME:A's development through, then left to join Microsoft's HoloLens team. The Retaker campaign of harassment and death threats had nothing to do with his departure from BioWare, as much as those people desperately want their sociopathic delusions to be vindicated. And even now, the former Retakers who've realized their campaign failed miserably now devote their lives to trying to make life hell for people who want to enjoy the games. Hence the people who lie in the faces of fans whom they know can see through their crap. And what lies would those be?
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 21, 2017 19:32:47 GMT
I know what my conformation biases are. IE: I am a HTLer, Retaker, Gamergate investigator. To all on the forums, give me a reason to be:
It is a very very uphill battle on that aspect.
I haven't had my nostalgic glasses in years.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 20:52:32 GMT
At this point i really dont give much of a frack. It doesnt change the fact that C.H did his own thing, without regards for the entire team, and it shows in the ending. Besides, where's the proof that his account was hacked? Please link it for me...Ill even go search and see if anything is there. Besides, most of old bioware has jumped ship, rather telling isnt it??? I typed in the question, "Was patrick weekes account hacked?" and the first thing to pop up.... gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/Give me proof. At this point, I hope ME:A does well but it has a noose hanging overhead and if the story doesn't deliver...I don't know if we will see any more ME games. Surely the metric is whether or not ME:A sells, not whether or not the story delivers. The story may have some influence on sales, but it isn't going to single-handedly determine sales
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Post by vonuber on Feb 22, 2017 0:48:02 GMT
The Retaker campaign of harassment and death threats had nothing to do with his departure from BioWare, as much as those people desperately want their sociopathic delusions to be vindicated. And even now, the former Retakers who've realized their campaign failed miserably now devote their lives to trying to make life hell for people who want to enjoy the games. Hence the people who lie in the faces of fans whom they know can see through their crap. I find the endings unsatisfying in general. I finished the game (with her all dlc) at the end 2013, well after all the controversy had died down. In fact I knew nothing of the controversy and joined the BSN looking for answers to my (for me) valid questions. And let's get one thing straight: it's got nothing to do with either a 'happy ending' or her surviving. If the game had ended with shep bleeding out on the citadel with Anderson then I'd have been perfectly happy with that as an ending. The scene after that part feels tacked on, almost like a fan made mod. Now I am sure you can counter with 'not getting it' but the problem is I do get it, I can see what they were trying to do - I just don't think it fits with the rest of the game at all. Anyway I think the ending talk just acts as smokescreen for deeper issues across the games as a whole - the ending just acts as a focal point for the myriad problems which build up over the three games. Still one of the best series I've played, but it is beginning to show its age and realising it's flaws doesnt mean you automatically think ME:A is going to be a crock of shit. I'll miss the chance of exploring more of illium though as a SPECTRE solving conspiracies.
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 22, 2017 3:48:13 GMT
At this point i really dont give much of a frack. It doesnt change the fact that C.H did his own thing, without regards for the entire team, and it shows in the ending. Besides, where's the proof that his account was hacked? Please link it for me...Ill even go search and see if anything is there. Besides, most of old bioware has jumped ship, rather telling isnt it??? I typed in the question, "Was patrick weekes account hacked?" and the first thing to pop up.... gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/Give me proof. At this point, I hope ME:A does well but it has a noose hanging overhead and if the story doesn't deliver...I don't know if we will see any more ME games. Surely the metric is whether or not ME:A sells, not whether or not the story delivers. The story may have some influence on sales, but it isn't going to single-handedly determine sales True. I just hope to be entertained by the story and not feel sucker punched at the end. IE: I want a meat lovers pizza, gosh darned it.
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Post by steamshipman on Feb 22, 2017 4:09:55 GMT
Now I am sure you can counter with 'not getting it' but the problem is I do get it, I can see what they were trying to do - I just don't think it fits with the rest of the game at all. Yes, all these "You just want your happy ending, dismissed" annoy me as hell. Logic suffered in the series here and there but was given a pass due to whole awesomeness of what was going on and also due to narrative consistency. Everything what happened after Marauder Shields... well until Anderson death narrative consistency was still imitated but what happened after kicked it in the balls several times and broke its neck. Happy ending, my god. You can give Sheppard long agonizing death if it is natural outcome of unfolded events. And same for crewmates - that's how much I care about happy ending. I just vastly prefer for ending to not turn whole story into bullshit. And 'not getting it' is stupid. Trilogy isn't some kind of art-house whose 'artistic integrity' is only comprehensible by several hipsters. From very beginning it was epic space opera, nothing else. If you need 'artistic integrity' for space opera ending it just means that you failed to think of appropriate resolution for whole story you created.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 22, 2017 4:23:04 GMT
This is the thread where all the old bitter people gather together in their safe ending space to vent out their frustrations over a five year old event that should have little to no effect in someone's life.
Even then, it amazes me how some people can fully defend Bioware over that whole thing.
I mean, the backlash existed for a reason.
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vanguarddoken
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I am the Adept! I casts the biotics that makes the peoples fly up!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 22, 2017 4:29:43 GMT
I mean, the backlash existed for a reason. Because a handful of lying people who didn't get exactly what they wanted believe that an harassment campaign against the developers and actual fans is a reasonable reaction. There's something seriously wrong with people who threw such a fit over not getting exactly what they wanted from a video game, then proceeding to join a forum for fans of the game and screech about it five years later. One would think a reasonable person would instead spend their time in the fandoms of the works they enjoy, instead of endlessly complaining about works they don't. While an unreasonable person would hold a vendetta against all of the fans who didn't dislike what such a person didn't like.
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Post by JokeDealer on Feb 22, 2017 4:39:57 GMT
Usually I would agree with you on all fronts. There's a good portion of gamers who look for any excuse to complain and it pisses me off. Should we expect Andromeda to be exactly like previous games? No! Hell, people want Andromeda to change things, but Bioware will get bitched at if they change too much. There's no winning. However, Andromeda is a Mass Effect game. This isn't an entirely new game, nor is it a new series. It's the next installment in the franchise. Just by having the Mass Effect name, there are certain expectations attached to it. We expect it to be set in space, for it to have aliens, and for it to follow most of the same rules established by previous lore. Is this an opportunity to change things? Without a doubt, but we have to decide what is quintessentially Mass Effect. What aspects of the game help us identify it as a Mass Effect game, even if we were to only see the game and not the title? The thing that is quitisentially Mass Effect is on the tin. The 'Mass Effect' is what makes Mass Effect Mass Effect. As long as they have Element zero manipulating tech in the game then it will pretty much be the same franchise. It doesn't work like that. Look at Rogue One: A Star Wars Story. It had Stormtroopers, references to Jedi, mentions of the force, and a connection to events of the main films. By your logic, if it took place in a suburban neighborhood and followed a young girl out to win a motocross race, it'd still be a Star Wars film if it was titled such. And you'd be right -- it would be a Star Wars film, but only in name. You even said it yourself, "As long as they have Element zero manipulating tech in the game then it will pretty much be the same franchise." Even you need certain things for it to feel like a Mass Effect game.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 4:46:58 GMT
Maybe he doesn't know that. One of the things that poisoned our discourse about the endings is that the proposed fixes for the ending almost always made it happier, typically by removing the negative consequences of Destroy and/or a big-ass reunion scene with Shepard and the crew. When people are proposing that sort of fix, it's not crazy to conclude that the added happiness is the point. Note that there is a respectable version of the argument too. If you posit that ME was always about having a way to escape the hard choices rather than being forced to make one, then the final choice is a mismatch with the established choice structure. Virmire's a counterexample, but the argument can still be taken seriously. And as I've said many MANY times before: that's because of the lack of variety of endings made them all so bleak. There was no OPTION for anything better. Not like, say, DAO. Shepard's death was, quite simply, the most obvious example of what was wrong with the endings. Not the only problem I found Destroy bittersweet and nigh on the perfect send off.....sacrifice in the name of humanity. ....of course, none of this matters, as the whole Marauder Shields infused beam Citadel Catalyst space baby adventure was an Indoctrinated vision, where Shep was really in the rubble after Harby slapped him with a dark matter ray of delish. The breath of the paragon saviour, the end of the Reapers is nigh!
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 22, 2017 4:53:17 GMT
I see a lot of bellyaching here and on reddit, and on a couple of facebook groups I'm in, and on twitter, and a lot of it is super-hostile. Funnily enough, in these same spaces I always see a lot of complaints about the original trilogy. But when it comes to Andromeda, the original trilogy is some perfect ideal held up with reverence, and where Andromeda strays from its formula is nothing but folly. (nevermind that in the case of both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age trilogies, Bioware's comparable big game series of the last decade, all three games are different beasts from one another, and the very same people who say they changed for the worse as the series went on also seem to agree that the first entries are clunky messes) Andromeda isn't ME4. Andromeda is like a soft reboot. It's a new game, potentially a new series, that leverages lore and design decisions made and learned from in the last one in order to revamp things for the future. Think of it not as a sequel that must build off the back of its predecessors but more as a newly designed IP, which has been built from the ground up to be better and more fun. It is inspired by Mass Effect in much the same way as it can also take gameplay or even lore inspiration from other successful franchises -- Destiny, Warframe, Witcher, etc. You think tech armor should be an identical power in this game, like they owe it to you somehow? The tactical pause wheel is vital to this game? Every biotic power, pull, lift, throw, should return, exactly the same? The running and jumping (or lack thereof) and cover should be the same? Incorrect. This is a new game, and they're not constrained by the same design decisions. They can redesign old ideas to be better. They have decided that a faster-paced game with only three active powers at a time is objectively more enjoyable and fits better with the kind of game they want this to be -- and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why powers are being revamped and certain things are being folded into one another. That's why Warp is now being remade into something better. Why barrier is now a passive boost. Why there are no strict classes. They're taking another crack at old ideas, free from old shackles that they were stuck with through the whole trilogy -- and that's incredibly exciting. If you're upset that it's not the same, well, yeah. It's not supposed to be the same. They owe us nothing, certainly not adherence to old, dated design decisions that are arguably poorer than the new alternatives we're seeing here. I think we should all keep that in mind. You want everyone to see it for a new game and not have any expectations for prior mass effect games? Then maybe they shouldn't have Mass Effect in the game title. That's a dumb argument and I can pretty much tell you why in two words: Halo Wars Is Halo Wars, gameplay or story-wise the same as prior Halo games? No, no its not. Does it still stand on its own within the Halo universe? Yes, yes it does. The reason the OP is telling people to stop acting like self entitled pricks is because its toxic behaviour. You aren't entitled to anything, this game is not YOUR game. Even when you purchase a copy of this game, it is still not YOUR game. Before people jump down my throat though I do agree that Bioware needs to ensure that this title follows some basic principles from the prior titles. It needs to be in the same universe (lore wise), it needs to have a strong focus on characters and story, it needs to have acceptable combat (Mass Effect has never been about the combat) and it needs to provide the player with choice in various areas (actual decisions in game, character customisation, etc). So far, they've done all of that and more. You might not like what they did with the combat, you might not like the characters or the context of the main mission line, you might not even like how it looks visually...the important aspect there is the 'YOU'. The game was not designed for you and you alone. The decisions they've made were made to appeal to the largest group of people available and you'd be stupid to think that the majority of people dislike this game. The OP didn't really word it well but I do agree with the core principle. Mass Effect Andromeda is not Mass Effect 4. It has new characters, a new settings and does not/will not reconnect with the trilogy. Thus, it will attempt to improve on mechanics from the trilogy or even attempt new executions of old ideas. They are entitled to do so and people need to understand that. Lastly, people really should wait until they get to play the game (or see reviews and shit) before going off about how watered down things are or whatnot.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 22, 2017 5:00:41 GMT
I mean, the backlash existed for a reason. Because a handful of lying people who didn't get exactly what they wanted believe that an harassment campaign against the developers and actual fans is a reasonable reaction. There's something seriously wrong with people who threw such a fit over not getting exactly what they wanted from a video game, then proceeding to join a forum for fans of the game and screech about it five years later. One would think a reasonable person would instead spend their time in the fandoms of the works they enjoy, instead of endlessly complaining about works they don't. While an unreasonable person would hold a vendetta against all of the fans who didn't dislike what such a person didn't like. Nope, because the original ending sucked and you need to get out of your shill bubble.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 22, 2017 5:02:29 GMT
And as I've said many MANY times before: that's because of the lack of variety of endings made them all so bleak. There was no OPTION for anything better. Not like, say, DAO. Shepard's death was, quite simply, the most obvious example of what was wrong with the endings. Not the only problem I found Destroy bittersweet and nigh on the perfect send off.....sacrifice in the name of humanity. ....of course, none of this matters, as the whole Marauder Shields infused beam Citadel Catalyst space baby adventure was an Indoctrinated vision, where Shep was really in the rubble after Harby slapped him with a dark matter ray of delish. The breath of the paragon saviour, the end of the Reapers is nigh! Frak that. My Shepard is not going down as a worse mass murderer than Saren ever was! And that's the "least bad" outcome for me!
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 22, 2017 5:21:53 GMT
I found Destroy bittersweet and nigh on the perfect send off.....sacrifice in the name of humanity. ....of course, none of this matters, as the whole Marauder Shields infused beam Citadel Catalyst space baby adventure was an Indoctrinated vision, where Shep was really in the rubble after Harby slapped him with a dark matter ray of delish. The breath of the paragon saviour, the end of the Reapers is nigh! Frak that. My Shepard is not going down as a worse mass murderer than Saren ever was! And that's the "least bad" outcome for me! If I had to choose between IT and what we got, even with the ECut, I'd go with IT. It all floats down there....
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2017 5:22:53 GMT
Of course, none of our Shepards actually go down as mass murderers. Refuse Shepards are the worst, but nobody ever knows that they let the galaxy burn; Liara's beacons will lie to the next cycle.. Destroy Shepards are remembered as heroes, not murderers, because nobody GAF about AIs even if Shepard tells people what happened instead of telling everyone that the Crucible just did what it did without any input from him. Synthesis Shepards don't kill anybody. And Control Shepards can control their own fate.
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