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Post by armass81 on Jun 11, 2017 14:31:27 GMT
I just dont get it. FFXIII was a horrible game and it got 2 bad sequels and the series is still going. Same with Assassins Creed with some of its entries, even Bubsy is getting a new fucking game apparently. BUBSY! WTF? Theres a game series that deserves 3/10, not MEA as some peopel have branded it. MEA is above average game and apparently it sinks the entire series? Explain this to me please. Or is it just a bunch of chicken littles now yelling
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Post by cypherj on Jun 11, 2017 14:43:23 GMT
Assuming for argument's sake that it was killed.
Could be because a lot of people didn't think it was an above average game.
Could also be because it didn't get the traction they expected. They may have thought all the OT players would rush back to pick it up because it was an ME title, and if that didn't happen they may have decided it best to just leave ME alone and use the resources elsewhere.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 11, 2017 14:45:18 GMT
EA want a lot of money here and now. If Andromeda made even 10-20% less profits they expected, that's more enough for them to shut the whole thing.
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Post by mummy22kids on Jun 11, 2017 14:49:00 GMT
Ever since EA bought Bioware whenever a new game (or DLC or patch or anything) is released people come crawling out of the woodwork screaming about how "It's the end of Bioware" (or DA, or ME etc, etc, etc) because EA is EVIL!!!! I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by kumazan on Jun 11, 2017 14:50:07 GMT
Bad project management + harsher than usual reviews + high expectations + a rabid section of the internet waiting for a reason = ME is/may be at risk.
To be honest, BioWare should haven aware of the latter two, so they have no excuse for the former one.
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Post by bigbad on Jun 11, 2017 14:50:19 GMT
It's entirely plausible that below average Final Fantasy and Assassin's Creed games sell a lot more copies than below average Mass Effect games.
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jun 11, 2017 14:51:08 GMT
EA gets a lot of hate, but I place this failure squarely on Bioware and their incompetent management.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jun 11, 2017 14:51:09 GMT
Considering that Anthem is theie new big hitter, I can imagine EA just letting the ME brand quietly fade away. Also, unless DA4 is a big financial hit, I expect DA4 to be the last DA game as well.
10 years from now, Anthem will be the heavy hitter for Bioware along with 1 or 2 other new RPG IPs from Bioware.
BG/NWN was one era of Bioware
KOTOR/JE was another
DA/ME is another ers
And Anthem/New IPs will be the next
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Post by SofNascimento on Jun 11, 2017 14:52:53 GMT
Yes, it can. See Dead Space 3.
Now, ME is not gone, it's just resting.
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Post by malgus on Jun 11, 2017 14:54:16 GMT
DA 2 did not had a good reception with the public and we still got DAI 3 years later. As I said on another thread : And even then, even if mass effect was indeed put on hiatus does not mean we shall never get a sequel, that is what happens with assassins creed, they have put series on hiatus after AC syndicate, but it does not mean they are not actually making another one, and the next will be in egypt. I am not saying its sure that we will get an other mass effect, just that right now its way too early to say. The same way for dragon age, Laidlaw said that DA4 was not a thing yet, nearly a year after the last dlc of DAI : www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01/dragon-age-4-not-thing-says-creative-director/They were not working on it at this very moment. which did not mean they had no plans to do it eventually. Because we know right now, we know they are working on one : www.polygon.com/2017/5/22/15675002/dragon-age-new-game-bioware
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 11, 2017 14:55:01 GMT
EA gets a lot of hate, but I place this failure squarely on Bioware and their incompetent management. Of course, but have EA do anything about it ? I don't see any big names from BioWare dropped after MEA blamage. No one takes responsibility.
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jun 11, 2017 14:56:24 GMT
EA gets a lot of hate, but I place this failure squarely on Bioware and their incompetent management. Of course, but have EA do anything about it ? I don't see any big names from BioWare dropped after MEA blamage. No one takes responsibility. It's the human way.
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Post by timebean on Jun 11, 2017 14:57:36 GMT
But seriously, it's prolly going to be OK.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 11, 2017 14:58:35 GMT
Of course, but have EA do anything about it ? I don't see any big names from BioWare dropped after MEA blamage. No one takes responsibility. It's the human way. Oh, that's odd, cause in the last 2 years in my company 2 GM's been kicked and 3 DM's been forced to resign cause of their incompetence. Somehow in other places people have to take responsibility for their mistakes.
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Post by Fredward on Jun 11, 2017 15:01:00 GMT
It probably wasn't just one game. It was ME3's ending + a bad game + EA's focus on Anthem which may or may not be a precursor to shifting Bioware's gears entirely away from the SP market.
And it's probably not done forever. They just need nostalgia to overcome reservations wrt the franchise.
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jun 11, 2017 15:02:36 GMT
Oh, that's odd, cause in the last 2 years in my company 2 GM's been kicked and 3 DM's been forced to resign cause of their incompetence. Somehow in other places people have to take responsibility for their mistakes. I'm all for accountability. Just seems like a rare thing nowadays.
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Post by abaris on Jun 11, 2017 15:05:28 GMT
Assuming for argument's sake that it was killed. Could be because a lot of people didn't think it was an above average game. Could also be because it didn't get the traction they expected. They may have thought all the OT players would rush back to pick it up because it was an ME title, and if that didn't happen they may have decided it best to just leave ME alone and use the resources elsewhere. There's one fundamental criteria. Some people tend to hold a romantic view when it comes to games. They view them as art, as a labor of love. Nothing could be further from the truth. This game had a 40 million budget and tied quite a lot of manpower to one single project for half of a decade. At the foundations of this is a business plan. There's market research and based on that, there are projections on return of investment and what is considered a success or a failure. So, even if this broke even or provided a moderate revenue, this may not be enough for funds and manpower invested, according to the original plan. None of us knows this plan, that's why I always keep arguing that throwing around sales numbers - even they are not fully accessable to us - leads exactly nowhere. Not without knowing what the original business plan looked like. It's useless to speculate if the franchise is continued or not. That's not for us to know, unless they promote the next game in the series. A company will never say, they're discontinuing any franchise that is able to make people all emotional. Company statements so far lead to the conclusion that they're not satisfied with the reception and the sales. But to what extent they are dissatisfied, again, isn't for us to know without knowing their original expectations.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 11, 2017 15:06:11 GMT
Oh, that's odd, cause in the last 2 years in my company 2 GM's been kicked and 3 DM's been forced to resign cause of their incompetence. Somehow in other places people have to take responsibility for their mistakes. I'm all for accountability. Just seems like a rare thing nowadays. Maybe... well BioWare is probably quite unusual place to work, so terms are different too. I am just bit angry cause i sent quite a lot questions about MEA to Mr. Flynn and never got any answer. Don't like this guy, though.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 11, 2017 15:18:39 GMT
Maybe I can offer some feedback as an OT player who hasn't played a single second of Andromeda.
It may have been named "Mass Effect" but it doesn't particularly feel like Mass Effect to me. Mass Effect is the story of superhero and his/her sworn retainers on a quest to save the Milky Way. But these characters have no impact on Andromeda. And it's not even in the Milky Way anymore. So everything that I got attached to over three games has been washed away. Unless the gameplay was truly revolutionary, it just wasn't going to pique my interest; and it didn't.
Maybe the Andromeda characters are good. But I don't care. They aren't the characters I got attached to. It's not even the same setting I got attached to. And I don't mind having to adjust to new characters or scenery. My favorite game series, The Elder Scrolls, is built around a cycle where each protagonist (and almost the entire supporting cast) disappears after each installment. But I knew this going in, and I knew what to expect, and therefore this doesn't bother me.
But with Mass Effect, I got so invested into the series because of all the characters and the like, and Bioware washed it away to make way for a new game. Those characters were at the core of what made me a fan of Mass Effect to begin with, and so with them removed, I removed myself from having any real interest in playing Andromeda.
I sunk a lot of money into the OT. Not just three games and their myriad DLC, but t-shirts, knickknacks, and other such goodies. But not only do I not have any Andromeda merch; I don't have Andromeda, and I have no desire to even bother playing it. If Bioware had gone the Rogue Squadron route and said "We're still going to make the main series, but here's Andromeda, a neat little side story!" I'd definitely have gotten Andromeda and given it a chance. But with the essence of the main series all but gone, it feels like a waste of time to even bother.
Maybe I'm an outlier. I'm not the Lorax or anything; I don't speak for anyone or anything else as far as I'm aware. But I'd be willing to bet that for one reason or another, a good number of people just never bothered (and never will bother) with Andromeda for reasons not terribly dissimilar to mine.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 11, 2017 15:25:14 GMT
Maybe I can offer some feedback as an OT player who hasn't played a single second of Andromeda. It may have been named "Mass Effect" but it doesn't particularly feel like Mass Effect to me. Mass Effect is the story of superhero and his/her sworn retainers on a quest to save the Milky Way. But these characters have no impact on Andromeda. And it's not even in the Milky Way anymore. So everything that I got attached to over three games has been washed away. Unless the gameplay was truly revolutionary, it just wasn't going to pique my interest; and it didn't. Maybe the Andromeda characters are good. But I don't care. They aren't the characters I got attached to. It's not even the same setting I got attached to. And I don't mind having to adjust to new characters or scenery. My favorite game series, The Elder Scrolls, is built around a cycle where each protagonist (and almost the entire supporting cast) disappears after each installment. But I knew this going in, and I knew what to expect, and therefore this doesn't bother me. But with Mass Effect, I got so invested into the series because of all the characters and the like, and Bioware washed it away to make way for a new game. Those characters were at the core of what made me a fan of Mass Effect to begin with, and so with them removed, I removed myself from having any real interest in playing Andromeda. I sunk a lot of money into the OT. Not just three games and their myriad DLC, but t-shirts, knickknacks, and other such goodies. But not only do I not have any Andromeda merch; I don't have Andromeda, and I have no desire to even bother playing it. If Bioware had gone the Rogue Squadron route and said "We're still going to make the main series, but here's Andromeda, a neat little side story!" I'd definitely have gotten Andromeda and given it a chance. But with the essence of the main series all but gone, it feels like a waste of time to even bother. Maybe I'm an outlier. I'm not the Lorax or anything; I don't speak for anyone or anything else as far as I'm aware. But I'd be willing to bet that for one reason or another, a good number of people just never bothered (and never will bother) with Andromeda for reasons not terribly dissimilar to mine. I fully understand, cause my good friend, a MET maniac after playing trial decided not to buy MEA. He simple said he doesn't feel ME in this and that's it. And the beginning i was really angry with him, cause after waiting so many years i was soo hyped to play... but now, after finishing MEA i have to agree with him. Cora will never been so important for me as Miri was, PeeBee will never been a good substitute for Liara. And there are so many other examples. I know, it's not MET anymore, it's new opening, but feelings i got for OT are probably still too strong.
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Post by armass81 on Jun 11, 2017 15:31:01 GMT
So in summary im afraid of new things because of nostalgia? yes i know how that feels. Take final fantasy befor and after Sakaguchi left for example, its just not the same. Andromeda however is not a betrayal, like FFXIII or FFX-2, even if it is a dissapointment. Frankly im rather impressed they managed to pull a game of even this caliber reading how damn messy the production was, from the kotaku article and all.
Also someone has already probably said this but it is indeed totally unfair to compare one games worth of characters to 3 games, they just dont compare. I would have liked too see myself how Andromedas cast would have grown, in multiple games, but i dont think theres a chance for that now, or a minimal chance at best. Such a shame.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 11, 2017 15:31:15 GMT
It's the "Chicken Little" reaction that people have when a game causes waves. Same thing happened with DA2. Weird thing here is that a good many people seem to actually be gloating because they think the franchise is dead.
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Post by darkway1 on Jun 11, 2017 16:10:50 GMT
A normal developer/studio should love their own creation,so what if a book,movie,game tanks,there are tons of story's to tell,the next one will be so much better.
EA on the other hand is a publisher,it care's about sales,there is no love,only cash and how much cash a product makes........if a game does not make money,it goes in the bin,it's a bad investment.
Hence why EA's portfolio is full of shooters and sports......cos that's what sells.
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Daft Arbiter
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Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 11, 2017 16:12:39 GMT
So in summary im afraid of new things because of nostalgia? Also someone ahs already probably said this but it is indeed totally unfair to compare one games worth of characters to 3 games, they just dotn compare. In my case? No. I'm totally open to new characters and new settings, but for me, the selling points of Mass Effect were the characters and setting. Those particular characters and that particular setting were fundamental to my enjoyment of the series and with them no longer in place, the foundation no longer exists. Bioware got me attached to the old characters and the old setting and then hand waved it. Ergo, they handwaved my interest. I'm not angry about it, I'm just not interested. If I wanted to wax nostalgic I'd communicate something along the lines of "The new stuff sucks, the old stuff was better!" What I feel instead is "The new stuff might be interesting but the old stuff is still good and the new stuff feels like a hackneyed replacement for the old stuff which I very much enjoyed." I'm not rambling about Andromeda, and I won't hate on it or nitpick about it. In fact I did the opposite of ruminating about old things. After ME3 I moved on to new game series. And frankly, I dislike the implied narrative that anyone who prefers something older is just some fuddy duddy who lives in the past.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Jun 11, 2017 16:30:59 GMT
Considering that Anthem is theie new big hitter, I can imagine EA just letting the ME brand quietly fade away. Also, unless DA4 is a big financial hit, I expect DA4 to be the last DA game as well. 10 years from now, Anthem will be the heavy hitter for Bioware along with 1 or 2 other new RPG IPs from Bioware. BG/NWN was one era of Bioware KOTOR/JE was another DA/ME is another ers And Anthem/New IPs will be the next And yet they are in the process of making DA4. It's not even a secret any longer, if it ever was. So, no, not the end of an "era".
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