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Post by griffith82 on Apr 14, 2018 15:16:49 GMT
The short answer is we'll never know. However, it's perfectly normal for contracts to end as a game reaches its launch date, so finding 'empty desks' (not the same as empty) as a game ships is not of itself unusual. The clincher for me is why retain the Quarian Ark teaser if DLC had already been dismissed long ago. That would make absolutely no sense as it plainly set an expectation in the game for more content (such expectation clearly ran hot). It could be argued that Ryders 'family' plot and the benefactor were too embedded to remove, but the Quarian Ark teaser could have been removed by simply disabling the never before seen NPC Spec. Rynn Gee's 'talk' button. I'm sure DLC was unconfirmed at launch, but equally, when the game was closed up for shipping it remained a possibility if sales justified it. To have dismissed it in early development? I just don't buy it, but that's my view not proof. If Andromeda had sold gangbusters and everyone loved it, I think it would've been strange if they didn't capitalize on that by making DLC for it. that said, they were pretty vague and dodgy with what they intended with DLC around launch. Most likely it was in the plans throughout the final stretch of development but I think already by December 2016 they knew they were going to ship the game in a nearly unfinished state. You can tell, just in those GI interviews with Mac Walters or some of the tweets from various Montreal staff around the time it was close to releasing that gives off a sense of hopelessness. Mac sounded nervous about being able to pump out the content around October and GameInformer also noted that what they saw when visiting BioWare at that point looked "super early". Andromeda reminds me a lot of KOTOR 2. Rushed out and unfinished. Biggest difference here is nothing was stripped out of the game and didn’t require mods to fix the glaring issues. I just hope Andromeda doesn’t share KOTOR’s fate.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 14, 2018 15:27:44 GMT
Isn't kind of funny how some say Andromeda doesn't match any Game from the trilogy, then all they want is an entire reworking of 1? Hmm... Andromeda so fail according to meme! Make ME1 from scratch return to Milky Way! Ok a bit caveman there but you get the point. Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 14, 2018 15:59:37 GMT
Isn't kind of funny how some say Andromeda doesn't match any Game from the trilogy, then all they want is an entire reworking of 1? Hmm... Andromeda so fail according to meme! Make ME1 from scratch return to Milky Way! Ok a bit caveman there but you get the point. Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET. Ever heard of a word called “opinion.” Thought not.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 14, 2018 16:21:25 GMT
Isn't kind of funny how some say Andromeda doesn't match any Game from the trilogy, then all they want is an entire reworking of 1? Hmm... Andromeda so fail according to meme! Make ME1 from scratch return to Milky Way! Ok a bit caveman there but you get the point. Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET. Indeed I have heard of that word! I do associate it with the trilogy, I even *gasp* think of it with Andromeda! I just found it interesting that so many want to change such quality. Changing all of how ME1 works, reworking the ending of 3. Surely they cannot speak such blasphemy when they badger BioWare about remasters? Also I don't mind returning to the Milky Way, I just think closure in Andromeda and telling new stories in the MW is better than giving the past a new coat of paint.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 16:29:30 GMT
The short answer is we'll never know. However, it's perfectly normal for contracts to end as a game reaches its launch date, so finding 'empty desks' (not the same as empty) as a game ships is not of itself unusual. The clincher for me is why retain the Quarian Ark teaser if DLC had already been dismissed long ago. That would make absolutely no sense as it plainly set an expectation in the game for more content (such expectation clearly ran hot). It could be argued that Ryders 'family' plot and the benefactor were too embedded to remove, but the Quarian Ark teaser could have been removed by simply disabling the never before seen NPC Spec. Rynn Gee's 'talk' button. I'm sure DLC was unconfirmed at launch, but equally, when the game was closed up for shipping it remained a possibility if sales justified it. To have dismissed it in early development? I just don't buy it, but that's my view not proof. If Andromeda had sold gangbusters and everyone loved it, I think it would've been strange if they didn't capitalize on that by making DLC for it. that said, they were pretty vague and dodgy with what they intended with DLC around launch. Most likely it was in the plans throughout the final stretch of development but I think already by December 2016 they knew they were going to ship the game in a nearly unfinished state. You can tell, just in those GI interviews with Mac Walters or some of the tweets from various Montreal staff around the time it was close to releasing that gives off a sense of hopelessness. Mac sounded nervous about being able to pump out the content around October and GameInformer also noted that what they saw when visiting BioWare at that point looked "super early". Mac also clearly expressed in one of those interviews that he thought the game might not go over well with the fans because Bioware's fans were... (can't remember the exact term he used there, but I clearly got the impression that he was acknowledging that, even before the game released, the fans were already dissing it because they were totally resistant to even the idea of it). The fans have simply not wanted to allow the series to progress towards taking any new directions. Sure, some of his lack of confidence was probably due to his knowledge of the state the game was actually in and probably also realizing that Bioware was just not going to get any more time out of EA... but some of it was also very likely due to the negative vibes the fans were giving off long before the game released.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 14, 2018 17:02:54 GMT
If I recall at the end of Andromeda don't they just leave it up to the quarian captain to figure it out? It could have been dlc, at the same time it seemed like Ryder and the Initiative were just glad it wasn't them in that situation.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 14, 2018 20:01:51 GMT
Isn't kind of funny how some say Andromeda doesn't match any Game from the trilogy, then all they want is an entire reworking of 1? Hmm... Andromeda so fail according to meme! Make ME1 from scratch return to Milky Way! Ok a bit caveman there but you get the point. Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET. Did you play the same games I did? There were plenty of problems in the first three games. Just because for some reason you can overlook those and not the ones in Andromeda doesn't mean those issues didn't hurt those games.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 14, 2018 20:43:55 GMT
Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET. Did you play the same games I did? There were plenty of problems in the first three games. Just because for some reason you can overlook those and not the ones in Andromeda doesn't mean those issues didn't hurt those games. Some people put the trilogy on a high pedestal and act like it’s perfect. It’s not. I still consider it one of the best trilogies but it’s far from perfect.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Apr 15, 2018 8:54:50 GMT
Have you ever heard of this word called "quality"? It's associated with the MET. Did you play the same games I did? There were plenty of problems in the first three games. Just because for some reason you can overlook those and not the ones in Andromeda doesn't mean those issues didn't hurt those games. I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 15, 2018 11:59:19 GMT
Did you play the same games I did? There were plenty of problems in the first three games. Just because for some reason you can overlook those and not the ones in Andromeda doesn't mean those issues didn't hurt those games. I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore. The thing is I am not taking about most people, I get that people will see problems with the games and enjoy one more then the other. It is when a broad statement being that Andromeda overall is a lower quality of a game then the original trilogy seems to be ignoring the inherent flaws of the first three games instead of talking about how a key element let the other areas down.
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is wanting to have some fun!
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 15, 2018 12:30:33 GMT
I'm still not sold on the idea that rendering a previous character's choices moot is a useful way of respecting them. It doesn't necessarily render the choices moot... It makes it not visually obvious what choices the player made. The underlying relevance of the choices could still be brought to light within the context of a new story in other ways... ways that aren't so vastly disruptive to the flow of wherever that new story might be going with its plot. For example, regardless of whether the player's Shepard lived or died, Shepard would be dead more than 600 years later (potentially 1200 years later if the journey going back takes as long as the journey getting to Andromeda). Still, a dialogue could be entered somewhere that tells us whether or not Shepard's body was ever found or that he/she died years later somewhere else without disrupting a new story plot. Dialogue could be entered that acknowledges the Reapers either being destroyed outright or them helping to rebuild... but the Scourge (something unanticipated by anyone at the time) ultimately destroys everything that was rebuilt. The populace could be changed by the Scourge itself or the Jaardan - making them visually different than before (regardless of whether or not they acquired the green glowing eyes of the synthesis ending). The Milky Way Galaxy could be effectively "a new place." If the mere action of firing the Crucible triggers a chain reaction that brings about the Scourge itself, that becomes evident in Andromeda 600 years later but that is also ravaging the Milky Way during that same time frame, we have a relevant connection between the the two galaxies and stories. Regardless, it's Bioware writing it - not me, not you, not anyone here (unless there are Bioware writers lurking). I'm just saying that when Soderland mentions "a new place", he could even be referring to the Milky Way. Trying to use an obvious fan service type story very rarely works and is never leads to creatively satisfying work. See all 3 of the Star Wars prequels and Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens, The Hobbit, and Star Trek: Enterprise if you need any examples.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 15, 2018 13:02:06 GMT
I've seen enough fan-pander sequels to last a life time (or two in my case - Miranda) as well.
It sucks that it happens because taken on its own Andromeda did some interesting stuff with it's ME1 2.0 plot points. Its biggest weakness however is that it developed more like a dumb hollywood movie with the twists than a good novel unlike Mass Effect 1 which redeemed itself from its dry tone and monomythic geneicathon simply by using Saren and applying everything to such a fleshed out universe.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Apr 15, 2018 13:25:22 GMT
I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore. The thing is I am not taking about most people, I get that people will see problems with the games and enjoy one more then the other. It is when a broad statement being that Andromeda overall is a lower quality of a game then the original trilogy seems to be ignoring the inherent flaws of the first three games instead of talking about how a key element let the other areas down. As a general rule people are incapable of setting aside their own expectations and preferences long enough to perform a fair and objective analysis...and without a doubt there is a bit of subjectivity as to what makes a game better. For me story always trumps everything else...I can live with deficiencies elsewhere if the story delivers...I mean that's how I got sucked into playing Bioware games in the first place. Others want a great combat system or massive world(s) to explore. MEA by far has the best combat system...the Nomad was vastly superior to anything that came before...there are some great missions with some interesting story contained within. I think there was an absolutely fantastic foundation to which they could have built upon. It's unfortunate they abandoned it. Everything that was wrong could have been fixed...including the story. Still, I have no regrets buying the game...I've definitely gotten my money's worth...and it's still more interesting/fun than...well, any Bethesda game ever made.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 13:38:55 GMT
It doesn't necessarily render the choices moot... It makes it not visually obvious what choices the player made. The underlying relevance of the choices could still be brought to light within the context of a new story in other ways... ways that aren't so vastly disruptive to the flow of wherever that new story might be going with its plot. For example, regardless of whether the player's Shepard lived or died, Shepard would be dead more than 600 years later (potentially 1200 years later if the journey going back takes as long as the journey getting to Andromeda). Still, a dialogue could be entered somewhere that tells us whether or not Shepard's body was ever found or that he/she died years later somewhere else without disrupting a new story plot. Dialogue could be entered that acknowledges the Reapers either being destroyed outright or them helping to rebuild... but the Scourge (something unanticipated by anyone at the time) ultimately destroys everything that was rebuilt. The populace could be changed by the Scourge itself or the Jaardan - making them visually different than before (regardless of whether or not they acquired the green glowing eyes of the synthesis ending). The Milky Way Galaxy could be effectively "a new place." If the mere action of firing the Crucible triggers a chain reaction that brings about the Scourge itself, that becomes evident in Andromeda 600 years later but that is also ravaging the Milky Way during that same time frame, we have a relevant connection between the the two galaxies and stories. Regardless, it's Bioware writing it - not me, not you, not anyone here (unless there are Bioware writers lurking). I'm just saying that when Soderland mentions "a new place", he could even be referring to the Milky Way. Trying to use an obvious fan service type story very rarely works and is never leads to creatively satisfying work. See all 3 of the Star Wars prequels and Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens, The Hobbit, and Star Trek: Enterprise if you need any examples. I find it interesting that the same people who were... "Bioware, you must face your ME3 endings and can only write a ME4 game if it creates a canon ME3 situation and don't you dare side-step it" are the same ones now saying "You absolutely have to totally abandon your story 'mistakes' in Andromeda. You can't even think of referencing it in any way." Moving forward with a new story that goes beyond the Andromeda timeline (and still has the Andromeda event having taken place) does not necessarily make that story "fan pandering." Going back again and redoing the Trilogy... and changing the endings is obvious "fan-pandering." It's an idea that has been totally rejected by Bioware time and again... and now doing it would be at the expense of the fans who happened to like ME:A regardless of it's flaws because it's advocating totally abandoning them and leaving that story totally hanging in mid-air. The solution should be then that Bioware should absolutely totally abandon the Mass Effect IP and start a new one... Oh, they're doing that with Anthem and nobody likes that either.
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Post by goishen on Apr 15, 2018 13:42:49 GMT
So, everybody's failing up and ewoks for cash.
Good move EA. Really changing the landscape here.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2018 13:47:29 GMT
I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore. Its not just the storytelling, but the characters and dialog. I am replaying the game now for the first time in months and I just cringe dialog lines like "No! *We* did it! Go team" or "Resilience is not just a name, its our responsibility...". Its like I am attending a political rally where the leader is giving a long speech but not really saying anything. And the entire game is like that. The OT had flaws but I never found myself annoyed at the dialog the way I am in MEA With regards to this promotion, I am not going to read too much into it. Companies the size of EA are complicated animals and its hard for me to see this person's promotion as an indication ME is coming back.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 15, 2018 13:50:33 GMT
Did you play the same games I did? There were plenty of problems in the first three games. Just because for some reason you can overlook those and not the ones in Andromeda doesn't mean those issues didn't hurt those games. I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore. Well it is clear that the storytelling in MEA isn't for everyone but apart from that I cannot see how any game in the trilogy pulls me in better than Andromeda did. I think most of this is about horses for courses.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 15, 2018 16:07:49 GMT
Story is the main thing to me in a game as well. The thing that ME1 did for me that drew my in so much was developing the world outside of the current story. Rachni were dominating the galaxy, the Krogan were uplifted to fight the Rachni, but then got out of hand and Salarians created the genophage. This led to a rule to not turn on relays without knowing where they went. Humans unknowingly violated this, which led to the COntact War, and there is tenuous alliance between humans and Turians, as well as the other council races. Which brings you to the opening of the game.
Then you have the Morning War, which turned the Quarians into a migrant race and led to a ban on AIs, as well as the Geth now being behind the veil and not having any interaction with anyone outside.
So much existed outside the story, and then it all got woven together into the story to pull you in. Noveria with the Rachni queen, Virmire where Wrex said hold on a minute, if this is a cure we can't just destroy this place. Or Ashley being a Xenophobe, nationalist, whatever you decided she was. Squadmates beliefs and actions were shaped by the history as well as things in the main story.
I understand ME1 was more self-contained, and they probably wanted to flesh out this story over multiple games. But everything can't be set aside to explain at a later date. They were trying reboot the series and lay a foundation in this new galaxy. Problem was, the galaxy wasn't interesting because nothing seemed to exist there outside this story. It was just shallow to me. Especially considering they had a completely blank canvas to work with.
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N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Apr 15, 2018 18:11:37 GMT
I think most people recognize the inherent flaws in the OT, but the reason it gets a pass and MEA does not is the overall quality of storytelling. One of the most important aspects to pulling an audience in and maintaining their interest is rising tension. All three games from the OT do this brilliantly. MEA really lacks that. I never really felt anxious or that sense of pressure because thousands would die if I didn't deliver, or even have that much emotional investment in the story (the open world of MEA is part of the issue). Drack was about the only thing I found memorable as far as story goes. I do think it's a pretty good game despite the story. Combat is great, and pretty much the reason I still play MEA. There are some really good missions (saving the Moshae and Asari/Salarian arks). Most of the companions I find boring, childish, or just plain annoying...and as a result mostly ignore my shipmates unless its required for progression. I am a bit disappointed with the story but maybe the problem lies with my own expectations of what Bioware is capable of producing anymore. Its not just the storytelling, but the characters and dialog. I am replaying the game now for the first time in months and I just cringe dialog lines like "No! *We* did it! Go team" or "Resilience is not just a name, its our responsibility...". Its like I am attending a political rally where the leader is giving a long speech but not really saying anything. And the entire game is like that. The OT had flaws but I never found myself annoyed at the dialog the way I am in MEA With regards to this promotion, I am not going to read too much into it. Companies the size of EA are complicated animals and its hard for me to see this person's promotion as an indication ME is coming back. I do pretty much agree with that. I got the whole sense that the writers were going out of there way not to offend anyone. As a writer if you're not offending...challenging peoples' thought processes, you're not creating a believable world...people are not monolithic in the way they were presented in game. From the basic concept to how it was executed, I felt like was part of some idealistic "hippy" commune experiment. "Wo'ah man, were peaceful explorers...we don't need weapons on our ships." Of which I would have shown ships getting blown apart and the terror of people getting blown apart and sucked into vacuum, followed by the realization by the surviving initiative personnel of how naively stupid they were and a complete 180 change of attitude to adopt a militaristic stance...probably leading to early armed conflict with the Angara early on. Conflict is the great narrator.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 20:07:52 GMT
Its not just the storytelling, but the characters and dialog. I am replaying the game now for the first time in months and I just cringe dialog lines like "No! *We* did it! Go team" or "Resilience is not just a name, its our responsibility...". Its like I am attending a political rally where the leader is giving a long speech but not really saying anything. And the entire game is like that. The OT had flaws but I never found myself annoyed at the dialog the way I am in MEA With regards to this promotion, I am not going to read too much into it. Companies the size of EA are complicated animals and its hard for me to see this person's promotion as an indication ME is coming back. I do pretty much agree with that. I got the whole sense that the writers were going out of there way not to offend anyone. As a writer if you're not offending...challenging peoples' thought processes, you're not creating a believable world...people are not monolithic in the way they were presented in game. From the basic concept to how it was executed, I felt like was part of some idealistic "hippy" commune experiment. "Wo'ah man, were peaceful explorers...we don't need weapons on our ships." Of which I would have shown ships getting blown apart and the terror of people getting blown apart and sucked into vacuum, followed by the realization by the surviving initiative personnel of how naively stupid they were and a complete 180 change of attitude to adopt a militaristic stance...probably leading to early armed conflict with the Angara early on. Conflict is the great narrator. More like the story needed at least one ally within the galaxy because the numbers of Initiative people is so small that they would not have had any chance at all had they started the story with an early conflict with the Angara in addition to the early conflict that was started with the Kett. The Initiative is shown to have some armed vessels during the last fight of the game (Kandros was firing from his ship, as was Reyes). There were indeed no guns on the Tempest... a ship specifically designed for the Pathfinder (whose job it was to make friendly first contact) not start a conflict. Even with a ton of guns on it, the Nexus would have been a sitting duck if ever discovered and attacked by any fleet from Andromeda... remember, it hit the scourge and could not maneuver after that. I'm sure there was a gameplay choice involved as well since lots of people complained about Firewalker being a really boring DLC in part because they could just hover around at a distance (easily avoiding anything that was fire at them) while taking pot-shots at the enemies. It wasn't a whole lot better in ME1 with the mako where you could just cheese pretty much any battle by sticking the mako's nose in cover and taking pot-shots at the enemies at your leisure as they consistently hit the cover instead of the mako. The only fights in the mako that were the least bit stimulating was with thresher maws where the terrain offered next to nothing for cover... and they were only that way because the mako was so lacking in maneuverability.
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Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 21:01:35 GMT
I do pretty much agree with that. I got the whole sense that the writers were going out of there way not to offend anyone. As a writer if you're not offending...challenging peoples' thought processes, you're not creating a believable world...people are not monolithic in the way they were presented in game. From the basic concept to how it was executed, I felt like was part of some idealistic "hippy" commune experiment. "Wo'ah man, were peaceful explorers...we don't need weapons on our ships." Of which I would have shown ships getting blown apart and the terror of people getting blown apart and sucked into vacuum, followed by the realization by the surviving initiative personnel of how naively stupid they were and a complete 180 change of attitude to adopt a militaristic stance...probably leading to early armed conflict with the Angara early on. Conflict is the great narrator. More like the story needed at least one ally within the galaxy because the numbers of Initiative people is so small that they would not have had any chance at all had they started the story with an early conflict with the Angara in addition to the early conflict that was started with the Kett. The Initiative is shown to have some armed vessels during the last fight of the game (Kandros was firing from his ship, as was Reyes). There were indeed no guns on the Tempest... a ship specifically designed for the Pathfinder (whose job it was to make friendly first contact) not start a conflict. Even with a ton of guns on it, the Nexus would have been a sitting duck if ever discovered and attacked by any fleet from Andromeda... remember, it hit the scourge and could not maneuver after that. I'm sure there was a gameplay choice involved as well since lots of people complained about Firewalker being a really boring DLC in part because they could just hover around at a distance (easily avoiding anything that was fire at them) while taking pot-shots at the enemies. It wasn't a whole lot better in ME1 with the mako where you could just cheese pretty much any battle by sticking the mako's nose in cover and taking pot-shots at the enemies at your leisure as they consistently hit the cover instead of the mako. The only fights in the mako that were the least bit stimulating was with thresher maws where the terrain offered next to nothing for cover... and they were only that way because the mako was so lacking in maneuverability. Agreed. I would not have liked it if we got into conflict with them especially at that stage. I thought it was handled well. Agree wholeheartedly about the Mako and Hammerhead.
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gplayer
N3
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Post by gplayer on Apr 16, 2018 2:48:42 GMT
I understand ME1 was more self-contained, and they probably wanted to flesh out this story over multiple games. But everything can't be set aside to explain at a later date. They were trying reboot the series and lay a foundation in this new galaxy. Problem was, the galaxy wasn't interesting because nothing seemed to exist there outside this story. It was just shallow to me. Especially considering they had a completely blank canvas to work with. This is what happens when some writers think they have multiple installments to tell a story. When ME1 was being made they knew that multiple installments depended entirely on telling a good story and building a great IP. A writer on the MEA team might have thought that there will always be ME games in development and that there would be plenty of chances to tell the back story of Andromeda.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 16, 2018 3:07:07 GMT
I am not surprised for its pretty much what I expected them to do. Just like any other publisher out there, they will continue to push the limits of what people expect and with all the people that kept saying "this is how you do it, copy Overwatch" it gave them the green light to put them back. Saying any lootbox is acceptable will mean they are going to be in games because they are considered socially acceptable unless you cross the line, now that we have seen where that line is for now its going back to cosmetics. I be someone will try something like Battlefront 2 in a few years again because of how acceptable predatory lootboxes are on cellphone games and when those kids that grew up on it start playing console games they will think its okay for them to be there as well.
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gplayer
N3
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
Posts: 259 Likes: 318
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gplayer
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Apr 14, 2017 23:27:51 GMT
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Post by gplayer on Apr 16, 2018 4:33:30 GMT
I do pretty much agree with that. I got the whole sense that the writers were going out of there way not to offend anyone. As a writer if you're not offending...challenging peoples' thought processes, you're not creating a believable world...people are not monolithic in the way they were presented in game. From the basic concept to how it was executed, I felt like was part of some idealistic "hippy" commune experiment. "Wo'ah man, were peaceful explorers...we don't need weapons on our ships." Of which I would have shown ships getting blown apart and the terror of people getting blown apart and sucked into vacuum, followed by the realization by the surviving initiative personnel of how naively stupid they were and a complete 180 change of attitude to adopt a militaristic stance...probably leading to early armed conflict with the Angara early on. Conflict is the great narrator. It goes beyond being politically correct hippies. Its just platitudes/buzzwords someone would typically write to lengthen a speech or presentation. Like the architect mission on Eos. You can only respond by agreeing to help Advent or complain about how it will affect the environment. No option to say "We need all the water". In the era of eezo, mass effect drives and cyro-stasis and the dialog lines talk about the environmental effects of natural gas? That part made me feel lik McCoy in Star Trek IV walking through a 20th century hospital. I wasnt annoyed by the Tempest being toothless as most. It wasnt the armaments that made the Normandy effective. But I thought there would be some guns? Or maybe they would be fitted during the course of the game given the threats out there? Or at least a cloaking device? Did the Tempest ever cloak? I can't remember.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 16, 2018 4:41:57 GMT
It goes beyond being politically correct hippies. Its just platitudes/buzzwords someone would typically write to lengthen a speech or presentation. Like the architect mission on Eos. You can only respond by agreeing to help Advent or complain about how it will affect the environment. No option to say "We need all the water". I actually do agree with this. Ryder could easily say "We need all the water. If you want some, try joining our colony. You signed up for this. Deal with it." Ryder was often willing to accept exiles back into the AI because it made sense. Things were tense aboard the Nexus, especially with the Idiot Brigade in charge (not just Tann, but all of them). That led to some terrible consequences. Still, survival should trump everything else and if exiles are willing to work with colonists (not necessarily the Nexus) then welcome them back. They might have valuable and needed skills, especially if they've been surviving on a not-so-Golden World for a while.
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